Help! Need info on bull

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:15 am

I am going to reenter this topic in the hopes that someone in Britain has this information. In order to register my heifer as red, I need some "proof" that Saltaire Platinum is red-factored. Does anyone know if he was tested for colour? Or have any proof that his ancestor(s) were red? If I can't get this verified I will have to get her DNA'd for colour which I think is a bit silly and expensive.

Thanks! :O

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:36 am

Are there straws of semen still available? Ultimate and perhaps most immediate proof would be to submit semen for DNA testing for red., if this was being done maybe worth thinking if any other tests should be done at the same time.
I do not know the bulls pedigree and without it difficult to look through herd books to see pedigree, but obviously if one parent were red, then the bull absolutely has to be a red carrier even if he is black or dun.

It is also worth remembering that the breeder is still very much alive and well and still breeding Dexters - why not contact Jay Hunt for information?

Duncan

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:01 pm

Thanks, Duncan. I had just dug out her phone number when I recalled that Carol Davidson usually has all the herd books.

I discovered that the only red animal in Saltaire Platinum's ancestery was Templeton Firebird which is on his dam's side. What a lovely name! And I was also told that our secretary should already have the DNA info with him.

I also discovered that the American Dexter Cattle Association has a search option called descendents which is really interesting to look at. It helped me confirm that another bull that I use for AI has indeed produced dun calves for others. These on-line data bases are really excellent and I look forward to the day when the UK puts their dexter herd books on the web. Just make sure you include the colour!! :O

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:36 am

And if they are long or short legged too please. :;):

Did you use the ADA internet pedigree to get your information Kathy or the Canadian one?

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:08 pm

Inger if you go to the ADCA on-line pedigree and look up the ped of the bull (ie Salty Rambler IV) there is another button called 'decendants' and it will list all of the progeny that are registered; sex and colour. The CLRC has a similar pass called 'progeny' but a lot of the AI bulls that were available in Canada were used more in the US so for us and seeing what colour they carry it is easier because there are more to pick from so to speak! Most of the AI bulls here are non-carriers; which one were you thinking of? If I have info on his stats; height, chrondo statis, colours carried etc...I could let you know. How is that beautiful little heifer by the way? L

Kirk- Cascade Herd US · Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:34 am

It is a 100% proven fact that Saltaire Platinum carries red. The following somewhat well-known Platinum offspring in the US are registered as Red (Not Red/Dun):

Llanfair's Cinnabar
Glennland Mr. Redfire
Llanfair's Finnigan

To be registered as red in the US, requires proof. Therefore, if offspring are registered as red, then both the dam and sire are carriers. John Potter is a genetic guru in the US and he owns Cinnabar (who is heavily linebred to Platinum).

The only reason you might need to test is to prove that your animal isn't Dun. John Potter might be able to help you.

Hope this helps,

Kirk

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:03 am

She's doing well Liz. I'll be taking her 2 month old weight this coming week. I was wondering who Godstone Emeralda's (GB F10531P) parents were? What about Saltaire Pedrilla, was she polled or horned? I've been trying to find out how far back the polling goes in our Salty bull's pedigree.

Llanfair Finnigan throws red. His semen was used quite widely in NZ. He was also a carrier of Chondrodysplasia, if I remember rightly.

marion · Post by **marion** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:37 pm

Hi Inger, Llanfair's Finnigan was red. Godstone Esmeralda was thought to be a polled mutation. Apparently all her many calves from various horned bulls, were polled...marion

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:26 am

Yes, I've got her listed as polled, but I can't find out who her parents are. It isn't on the internet.

JamsHundred · Post by **JamsHundred** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:57 am

Inger,

I have an extended pedigree on both sides of SP. I will send it to you email if you like.

Godstone Esmeralda E1053l Sire: Woodmagic Pine Martin
E2110 Dam: Broadbridge Dawn E9211 ( Doesmead parent and grandparents)

marion · Post by **marion** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:58 am

Hi Inger, Llanfair's Finnigan was not a carrier of chondro...marion

JamsHundred · Post by **JamsHundred** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:39 am

Might as well go ahead and post it Inger. If you need more lines, let me know.

Saltaire Platinum [E2708] - Polled
Sire: Migh Poldark [E2447] - Polled
Dam: Saltaire Pedrilla [E10243] - Horned

Migh Poldark [E2447] - Polled
Sire: Westfield Merlin [E2280] - Horned
Dam: Godstone Esmeralda [E10531] - Polled

Saltaire Pedrilla [E10243] - Horned
Sire: St. Arvans Gypsy Pedro [E2181]
Dam: Saltaire Princess Diana [E9763]

Westfield Merlin [E2280} - Horned
Sire: Severnside Benjamin [E2217]
Dam: Adforton Magimix [E10001]

Godstone Esmeralda [E10531] - Polled
Sire: Woodmagic Pine Martin [E2110] - Horned
Dam: Broadbridge Dawn [E9211] - Horned

St. Arvans Gypsy Pedro [E2181]- Horned
Sire: Templeton Firebird {E2077R]
Dam: St. Arvans Gypsy 3rd [E8488]

Saltaire Princess Diana [E9763] - Horned
Sire: Saltaire Magpie [E2051]
Dam: Saltaire Dapoly [E9039]

Severnside Benjamin [E2217] - Horned
Sire: Woodmagic Porcupine [E2126]
Dam: Woodtown Phyllis [E9101]

Adforton Magimix [E10001]
Sire: Onnybrook Maybug E2145]
Dam: Woodmagic Modena [E9325]

Woodmagic Pine Martin [E2110] - Horned
Sire: Woodmagic Mink 2nd [E2076] - Horned
Dam: Woodmagic Martin 3rd [E8989] - Horned

Broadbridge Dawn [E9211] - Horned
Sire: Woodmagic Hedgehog [E2062] - Horned
Dam: Doesmead Haze [E8702] - Horned

Templeton Firebird [E2077R]
Sire: Runnymede Bantam {E1999]
Dam: Badby Firemantle [E8464}

St. Arvans Gypsy [3rd [E8488]
Sire: Sylvan Ebony [E1838]
Dam: Rock Gypsy [E8192]

Saltaire Magpie [E2051]
Sire: Wantsley Dapper [E2022}
Dam:Homer Rixey Piella [E8611]

Saltaire Dapoly [E9039]
Sire: Wantsley Dapper [E2022]
Dam: Saltaire Olympia [E8685]

Woodmagic Porcupine [E2126]
Sire: Woodmagic Squirrel 2nd [E2072D]
Dam: Woodmagic Musket 2nd [E8724]

Woodtown Phyllis [E9101]
Sire: Vycanny Glencally Relver [E2008]
Dam: Woodtown Poppit [E8790]

Onnybrook Maybug E2145]
Sire: Templeton Michaelmas Squeak [E2043]
Dam: Leesdale Mayflower [E9007]

Woodmagic Modena [E9325
Sire: Woodmagic Squirrel 2nd [E2072D]
Dam: Woodmagic Misselcock [E8984]

Woodmagic Mink 2nd [E2110]
Sire: Woodmagic Dormouse [E2007D]
Dam: Woodmagic Mudstopper {E8327]

Woodmagic Martin 3rd [E8989]
Sire: Woodmagic Fox [E2033]
Dam: Woodmagic Motacil [E8134]

Woodmagic Hedgehog [E2062]
Sire: Woodmagic Dormouse [E2007D]
Dam:Woodmagic Peewit [E7467]

Doesmead Haze [E8702]
Sire: Doesmead Cambo E1960
Dam: Doesmead Hazelnut [E7968]

Post by **Mark Bowles** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:39 pm

So where on earth does Godstone Esmeralda get her polling from?. Nothing logical in the breeding.
Mark

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:06 am

Thankyou for all that, Jamshundred. I've copied it all down and I'm sure lots of other Dexter breeders will do so as well. Roll on pedigrees on-line. :laugh:

Mark, its called spontaneous mutation. Mutations of any kind can happen with any mating. Bits of genetic material don't get photocopied properly and bits of information get dropped off the DNA strands. Sometimes the mutations are visable, sometimes they aren't. In the case of an absence of horns, it is noticable.

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:37 am

For years I have been looking for a spontaneous mutation for polling, where I could rest assured that I was not reducing my Dexter genes. Maybe I am too suspicious, but I still entertain doubts, knowing the propensity of bulls to overcome obstacles under the urges of nature. Where one knows that polled animals of another breed were also retained, I am left with the question mark. I believe the chances of such a mutation are around one in twenty thousand.