re registering within 30 days
Why should the DCS be any different to BCMS? When I send away for the passport I make a point of sending either the notification or full registration card at the same time. You have to be in the office to do the BCMS part, why not do the DCS at the same time? The way people are talking you would think that it cost a fortune or was a time consuming business to fill in a postcard sized form. you also have to post your passport application so there is only one trip to the post box. Sorry I forgot about the huge expence of a 30P stamp. If you think it unfair about the 30 day limit try it with BCMS, a calf without a passport is worth less than nothing.
Martin.
Maidstone
Kent
Maidstone
Kent
Picking out bits from all the above posts I would like to see the following:
An initial notification requirement with both parents' eartag numbers/names and the calf's eartag number, dob and sex within 31 days. Either on a simplified form or (very preferably) by internet with a printout available. (Just like BCMS) This would be sufficient to establish the calf as a Dexter and would be free.
An optional full registration within the first year, for animals to be bred or shown, this would cost (say) £15. I would see these being done as a single block If a calf is sold before 1 year old for breeding or showing the breeder would have to register it fully before selling.
With the system altered, there should be a year's 'amnesty' so that typical Dexters who have slipped through the net could be registered by giving as much detail as possible (and possibly a photo). Cost for this (say) £25. Spot checks on farm could be arranged if necessary.
Getting the currently unregisterable Dexters in would give the Club a decent boost in income to offset the cost of changing the forms and setting up the internet registration.
I'm sure there will be plenty of people who can spot holes in this and improve on it. Also work out what to do with grading up animals which I have frankly never understood very well. Go on have a go......
An initial notification requirement with both parents' eartag numbers/names and the calf's eartag number, dob and sex within 31 days. Either on a simplified form or (very preferably) by internet with a printout available. (Just like BCMS) This would be sufficient to establish the calf as a Dexter and would be free.
An optional full registration within the first year, for animals to be bred or shown, this would cost (say) £15. I would see these being done as a single block If a calf is sold before 1 year old for breeding or showing the breeder would have to register it fully before selling.
With the system altered, there should be a year's 'amnesty' so that typical Dexters who have slipped through the net could be registered by giving as much detail as possible (and possibly a photo). Cost for this (say) £25. Spot checks on farm could be arranged if necessary.
Getting the currently unregisterable Dexters in would give the Club a decent boost in income to offset the cost of changing the forms and setting up the internet registration.
I'm sure there will be plenty of people who can spot holes in this and improve on it. Also work out what to do with grading up animals which I have frankly never understood very well. Go on have a go......
Sylvia,
I heartly agree with your suggestions for birth notification and subsequent registration. I've never understood why an animal has to be registered at birth. A lovely looking heifer can turn into a gangly monster and a gangly calf can grow up to be just what a breeder is looking for!
Maybe if enough of us lobby the Society they will see sense.
Erica
Suffolk
I heartly agree with your suggestions for birth notification and subsequent registration. I've never understood why an animal has to be registered at birth. A lovely looking heifer can turn into a gangly monster and a gangly calf can grow up to be just what a breeder is looking for!
Maybe if enough of us lobby the Society they will see sense.
Erica
Suffolk
Erica Strange
Minden Dexters
Minden Dexters
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forestblaze
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Forest of Dean Gloucestershire
I have been thinking about this subject for a while now and have recently drafted a diagramme, which should be with a member of council shortly, if implemented this will not only mean that notifications/registrations can be done on line (for those who have a computor) but will also save the office staff considerable time and hence the DCS money but more importantly will make life easier for the breeder/seller.
the more members that lobby the society on this subject the better.
regards Bill Osborne, Castlemears Dexters, Forest of Dean.
the more members that lobby the society on this subject the better.
regards Bill Osborne, Castlemears Dexters, Forest of Dean.
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
Martin
The reason why the DCS should be different to the BCMS is simply that the BCMS have the power to make an animal worthless and can therefore enforce their rules. If the DCS makes life too difficult then the animal will normally enter the breeding chain but it and its progeny will all be unregistered with a consequent loss of income to the society.
The reason why the DCS should be different to the BCMS is simply that the BCMS have the power to make an animal worthless and can therefore enforce their rules. If the DCS makes life too difficult then the animal will normally enter the breeding chain but it and its progeny will all be unregistered with a consequent loss of income to the society.
Martin you are right it only takes a moment but just to give a diferent slight on things, I have now got a heifer that will be going in the freezer rather than sold as she appears to be polled but is registered an non polled as that is what she should be (obviously no one told her!). Having a little bit longer to register whilst not being exactly onerous could help stop mistakes being made. I now have no idea what to register the next one as when it comes along.
Isabel Long
Somerset
Somerset
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
Issy, I think you should speak to someone on the Registrations Committe, see Bulletin for names. I think there is provision for alteration of such details at a later date if need be.
For myself I cannot see why there need be such a fuss about registring within a month. If it is so easy to do it for BCMS it cannot be any more difficult to do for DCS. There is an awful lot of nonsense talked about lost income to the society by animals not being registered, when we should be facing the fact that in most breeds the registerd pedigree stuff is only the elite tip of the iceberg. The bigger the breed becomes the more unregistered stock of pure Dexter descent there will be, and this is no worry. The main thing is to keep a core of dedicated breeders interested in the finer points of the breed producing enough registered stock of enough variety of bloodlines to keep the breed going strongly. For beef marketing purposes there may be some need to record the breed of calves so that beef can be properly labeled, this is done I think by the AA and Welsh breeds, but they have enough volume to justify developing and keeping available DNA tests which can be used to check the meat products. I doubt if there is enough demand in Dexters to make this viable, but I might be wrong.
One of the things we should be worried about is the number of breeders who register absolutely everything and breed without any selection for quality. It is a difficult issue to address since so many Dexter herds are so small that any selection automatically culls out a huge percentage of the years calves, but we should be thinking more about this now that the breed numbers are so healthy.
On line registrations is a thing I would like to see developed but again the cost of such systems can be considerable. I am not sure that the DCS has had good value from the computer systems it has used in the past though I do not wish to pass judgement on the current set up since I do not know so much about it as I did about the earlier systems.
Duncan
For myself I cannot see why there need be such a fuss about registring within a month. If it is so easy to do it for BCMS it cannot be any more difficult to do for DCS. There is an awful lot of nonsense talked about lost income to the society by animals not being registered, when we should be facing the fact that in most breeds the registerd pedigree stuff is only the elite tip of the iceberg. The bigger the breed becomes the more unregistered stock of pure Dexter descent there will be, and this is no worry. The main thing is to keep a core of dedicated breeders interested in the finer points of the breed producing enough registered stock of enough variety of bloodlines to keep the breed going strongly. For beef marketing purposes there may be some need to record the breed of calves so that beef can be properly labeled, this is done I think by the AA and Welsh breeds, but they have enough volume to justify developing and keeping available DNA tests which can be used to check the meat products. I doubt if there is enough demand in Dexters to make this viable, but I might be wrong.
One of the things we should be worried about is the number of breeders who register absolutely everything and breed without any selection for quality. It is a difficult issue to address since so many Dexter herds are so small that any selection automatically culls out a huge percentage of the years calves, but we should be thinking more about this now that the breed numbers are so healthy.
On line registrations is a thing I would like to see developed but again the cost of such systems can be considerable. I am not sure that the DCS has had good value from the computer systems it has used in the past though I do not wish to pass judgement on the current set up since I do not know so much about it as I did about the earlier systems.
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
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Mark Bowles
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:03 pm
- Location: Leicestershire England
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
There will be at least two members from Scottish Islands at the AGM, looking forward to seeing lots of you there. Hopefully there will be an oportunity for general discussion on hot topics as there was last year. As well as registration issues I think Council should be urged to appoint a true diplomat to try to sort out differences with the York auctioneers for future events there.
Duncan
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Unfortunately I shall not be able to make the AGM, so I can only hope there will be a sufficiently loud voice on my side of the argument. Theoretically it should be reasonable to expect the notification to be done automatically when the BCMS form is sent off. Unfortunately there are many reasons why this doesn’t always happen.
To quote two possible scenarios. A newcomer often is unaware of the registration rules; they may not even have joined until the calf arrived. The buyer may purchase a cow and heifer calf and decide to join, the retiring breeder has not registered it, just two of many reasons.
I take issue on the Dexter working in the same way as the mainstream breeds. Taking a sample of Dexter breeders, few will be large farmers; most will have a small acreage, which they use either purely as a hobby or as a means of self-sufficiency that is why they turn to the Dexter. Only a small number will remain in the breed for many years, the turn over is large and during that process, if registration has too many hurdles, much good breeding will be lost.
Don’t assume that all the poor breeding is confined to the newcomer, or the small breeder, good and bad animals can come from all quarters. I have come across the large breeder who churns animals out in order to make money.
I believe every small breeder should be nursed, in the hope that they may become one of the few who go on to become a dedicated long term breeder, that is where I came from. The possession of a passport is itself much better proof of identification, than we had before their existence, we should be able to make use of that verification.
To quote two possible scenarios. A newcomer often is unaware of the registration rules; they may not even have joined until the calf arrived. The buyer may purchase a cow and heifer calf and decide to join, the retiring breeder has not registered it, just two of many reasons.
I take issue on the Dexter working in the same way as the mainstream breeds. Taking a sample of Dexter breeders, few will be large farmers; most will have a small acreage, which they use either purely as a hobby or as a means of self-sufficiency that is why they turn to the Dexter. Only a small number will remain in the breed for many years, the turn over is large and during that process, if registration has too many hurdles, much good breeding will be lost.
Don’t assume that all the poor breeding is confined to the newcomer, or the small breeder, good and bad animals can come from all quarters. I have come across the large breeder who churns animals out in order to make money.
I believe every small breeder should be nursed, in the hope that they may become one of the few who go on to become a dedicated long term breeder, that is where I came from. The possession of a passport is itself much better proof of identification, than we had before their existence, we should be able to make use of that verification.
I have been very concerned about the number of unregistered, yet pedigree, animals around the country for some time now. I was alerted to this through the amount of semen I was selling to non-members with registered stock who were not prepared to join the society because of costs and draconian rules for late registration etc.
Lets have your ideas put forward for next years council to look at, don't just put them on the discussion board!
On the subject of council I am very disappointed that more members didn't stand so that we could have had an election. We haven't had an election for a number of years and that is not very healthy for the society. We can't have an election if enough people don't stand and we end up with council members being elected by default.
There are some very good ideas put forward on this discussion board and I think some of you should have stood for council.
If you really love the Dexter breed then make time and think about standing next year!
Lets have your ideas put forward for next years council to look at, don't just put them on the discussion board!
On the subject of council I am very disappointed that more members didn't stand so that we could have had an election. We haven't had an election for a number of years and that is not very healthy for the society. We can't have an election if enough people don't stand and we end up with council members being elected by default.
There are some very good ideas put forward on this discussion board and I think some of you should have stood for council.
If you really love the Dexter breed then make time and think about standing next year!
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
I do hope that Council keeps half an eye on this forum. It really would be silly if they didn't and I've always assumed that they did. Perhaps they can make themselves known just to re-assure me?
I think I've said this before but I'll say it again.
I am closely involved (Chairman) with an international Photo Marketing Association and in fact I've just booked my tickets to Las Vegas for our next convention (sorry about that!)
It's a multi million dollar enterprise but relies, in the end, on lots and lots of individual subscriptions. We spend an enormous amount of time in making it easier for people to join and to stay in membership. It acyually costs us money to sign someone up (because of our inducements to trial membership) but we know it's worth it because of the proportion of members who then pay subs for many years. We wouldn't dream of making things difficult for them. When you're involved in retail then you are very aware that the customer really is always right.
Our present Council do seem to have a culture based upon what members SHOULD do rather than what members truly want. Thje tragedy is that once these unregistered animals are out there then there's no way of bringing them back into the fold. I hear what Duncan is saying but I do feel that Dexters are different from other breeds in that very few serious farmers would consider them. They are a niche market and the society must recognise this.
If any Council member IS reading this, then PLEASE
1. Make registration easier rather than harder
2. Promote the sales (and sort out the York situation)
3. Lobby for Dexters to have special treatment re 30 months rules
The Dexter breed does have great opportunities in the future but we could so easily miss out if we are not careful.
I think I've said this before but I'll say it again.
I am closely involved (Chairman) with an international Photo Marketing Association and in fact I've just booked my tickets to Las Vegas for our next convention (sorry about that!)
It's a multi million dollar enterprise but relies, in the end, on lots and lots of individual subscriptions. We spend an enormous amount of time in making it easier for people to join and to stay in membership. It acyually costs us money to sign someone up (because of our inducements to trial membership) but we know it's worth it because of the proportion of members who then pay subs for many years. We wouldn't dream of making things difficult for them. When you're involved in retail then you are very aware that the customer really is always right.
Our present Council do seem to have a culture based upon what members SHOULD do rather than what members truly want. Thje tragedy is that once these unregistered animals are out there then there's no way of bringing them back into the fold. I hear what Duncan is saying but I do feel that Dexters are different from other breeds in that very few serious farmers would consider them. They are a niche market and the society must recognise this.
If any Council member IS reading this, then PLEASE
1. Make registration easier rather than harder
2. Promote the sales (and sort out the York situation)
3. Lobby for Dexters to have special treatment re 30 months rules
The Dexter breed does have great opportunities in the future but we could so easily miss out if we are not careful.
Why should the DCS be any different to BCMS?
The BCMS was set up to moniter where all the cattle in theory are in the country and as calves can be moved around from a few days old and may have moved through several ports of call by the time they are a month old it is reasonable to expect that a early cut of date for registration is adered to, sadly the honest people are the ones that get catch by the 30days cut of.
THE DCS is a registration of pedigree cattle and although £10 may not seem much to Martin if you have a large herd and beef your animals and are trying to make a living from Dexters, the £10 can ceratinly add up, also if you have registered a heifer and named it which you have to do, it then becomes a name instead of a number. You only have to see the number of dexters now around that are not registred to see the has to be a problem with this system.
Ann
The BCMS was set up to moniter where all the cattle in theory are in the country and as calves can be moved around from a few days old and may have moved through several ports of call by the time they are a month old it is reasonable to expect that a early cut of date for registration is adered to, sadly the honest people are the ones that get catch by the 30days cut of.
THE DCS is a registration of pedigree cattle and although £10 may not seem much to Martin if you have a large herd and beef your animals and are trying to make a living from Dexters, the £10 can ceratinly add up, also if you have registered a heifer and named it which you have to do, it then becomes a name instead of a number. You only have to see the number of dexters now around that are not registred to see the has to be a problem with this system.
Ann