Delving into the past - Lots of bull

marion · Post by **marion** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:38 am

Hi Inger, Saltaire Platinum was heterozygous polled...marion

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:40 pm

I've had two red calves out of Saltaire Platinum (a male and a female) and both are smaller and lighter built than the black male I got from him. I have rebred 3 cows to Platinum in the hopes of getting polled animals. At the moment, my 3 month old red heifer has yet to produce horn buds so I live in hope :laugh:

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:48 pm

....speaking of udders, is it difficult to breed out the extra teats? I love the udders on my cows but they all have one or two extra teats.

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:19 am

My limited knowledge says that if you use a bull that only has 4 teats, he'll pass that on to his daughters. Duncan can you shed any light on this?

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:59 pm

I am not certain of the inheritance of extra teats, except of course that it is inherited. The logic of ensuring that bulls used only have 4 teats is of course based on that, but to truly get rid of the gene we would need to breed only cows which had four. Recessive genes can lurk in carrier animals and not be expressed so difficult to get rid of. It has always been a bit of a dilema to me what to do about them when inspecting, because the well removed ones are almost impossible to detect - so I usually think best thing is to note the finding then anyone can see that there is an extra one there. The fact that there are only 4 on an animal in a sale does not necessarily mean that it was born with only 4.

Duncan

marion · Post by **marion** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:13 pm

I kept a large goat herd for a lot of years, and found that some goat families produced extra teats. Also some goat breeds seem to have more extra teats. So, definitely genetic. But, I have read (and cant now remember the details) that other influences can produce extra teats, I think it may have been hormonal influences during gestation. I have a (line-bred) young buck with extra teats, whose family I have had for generations, great little milkers with nice udders and definitely no extra teats. His kids have not had any either...marion

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:36 pm

Marion,

Your young buck mauy be showiing the extra teats because the gene determining these is recessive, and if he is line bred he is more likely to be homozygous, so with show them if he has recessive gene from both parents. His offspring, if you have bred out again, are less likely to show them but will carry the gene since he will have passed it on to all his offspring, being homozygous. Try a number of half brother half sister matings of his offspring and see what proportion you get with extra teats.

Duncan

marion · Post by **marion** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:31 pm

Hi Duncan. I'm just down to a few goats now, and the ones I'm keeping will be half-brother/sister matings, so I'll let you know in a year or two!. I'm betting on no extras, since none of them have had extra teats for generations until him (his twin had none). Guess I'll find out!..marion
ps: I should add, I've had lots of others inbred closely to this family and they never had any extra teats. I only used "linebred" as it sounded better!! :p

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:36 pm

LizD, as requested, this is a picture of Brenda (Salty Pioneer's daughter) showing her udder and her new heifer calf. Born today.

The calf is the first G4 for us (can be registered as a purebred in NZ). She is Black but will carry Dun from her Dun sire, She's Long Legged, polled and has just 4 teats.

marion · Post by **marion** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:51 pm

Inger, She's absolutely gorgeous!! And lovely teats on the dam...marion

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:36 pm

Aww, so cute in the sunshine and green grass and mom hovering over her. I love their expressions. Congratulations, Inger. :laugh:

Kathy

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:11 am

She's also a really placid calf. I do hope she stays that way. :laugh:

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:35 am

Congratulations!! First G4 and a heifer and a gorgeous one to boot! Wow Inger what patience! You must be so proud. When you do the stuff like birth weight, gain etc and generally see how she does, (I am sure perfectly :;): ) if you could give us an update...that would be great. Marion is right the dam has beautiful teats! Liz D ps thanks

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:50 am

Will do Liz. The weights are measured at 1 month, 6mths, 12mths and 24 months. So it takes a while to accumulate the data.

I'm up to the 12 mth weigh-in for last year's calves. That was the first year that we had the walk-on animal scales to use. They've been so handy when we've needed to drench them or teat them for something. Its great for giving me an idea of which cows are feeding their calves the best.

Last year's steers averaged 180 kgs at 11 months, when we sold them at the cattle sales. We got NZ$455 each for them. Which was better than last year. We try and sell our yearling steers just as the Spring grass starts growing. That's when farmers need more mouths to feed and are prepared to pay a bit more to buy them. Our property isn't any good for finishing beef, but our cows do a fine job growing their calves.