Minefield

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:07 pm

What a minefield it is trying to run a herd of cattle. I don't suppose there is much difference between Dexters and the rest in this respect. In the Spring I was geared up to sell some breeding stock and had one cow inconclusive in the annual (and 6 weeks delayed) TB test. She was clear on the next test but by that time we were into other things.

Recently I have once again tried to set the wheels in motion to reduce my herd to a more manageable size.

This week I had a steer put down. The vet thought he might have meningitis and we had been treating him for this without much improvement. He went for a PM as we wanted to find out what was wrong. The post mortem results were inconclusive but suggested possible TB. (He was clear in the February test) The samples will have to be cultured which could take 6 weeks. The first phonecall I had said that I would have to have a double whole herd test if the results were positive. This was contradicted later that day and I now have to have a whole herd test ASAP. Now booked for next week. But even if everyone goes clear I will have to wait for the results of the cultures.

From this you may think that my herd are a miserable sickly bunch who are not looked after properly. The reality is that they are out in their fields, coats gleaming, looking as bonny as could be.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:44 pm

I always try to look on the bright side, so naturally I hope that your calf has not had TB. But if it has been TB, the bright side is that you have had the post mortem done and found out well before your next test, which means that if it is in your herd there will not be as much chance of it having spread to others as if it had gon on longer undetected.

Duncan

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:56 am

Well Duncan, I've thought hard before posting this because it is so devastating. However I rate honesty extremely highly, and no-one gets anywhere by being secretive about these things, so at the risk of damning my herd for ever I am posting details of what has happened.
The tests were read on my Dexters yesterday and 20 of my 21 steers were reactors. Of the 40 cows and heifers tested one was inconclusive, the rest were alright. As we put them through, all of us, including the vet, were in shock. The steers are obviously kept in a group and had been wormed with Noromectin at the end of July, which the rest of the herd were not. We run a closed herd and do not go to shows. The steers represent 2 years worth of my emerging beef sales enterprise.
I'm all for looking on the bright side, but am finding it very difficult to see any silver lining in this situation.

Post by **Mark Bowles** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:26 pm

Were the steers in a group away from the cows? has there been any TB history on your land? Are you saying that the TB has beed read falsley due to the medication input.
Sounds very strange, sounds very depressing and not very logical.
All the very best,
Mark

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:27 pm

Sylvia I feel in shock myself, what an absolutely terrible disaster, I feel for you, what else can I say. Keeping stock is always a bit of a lottery, but I have seldom come across such rotten bad luck, I just wish I could offer better consolation. How long do we wait for 'the powers that be' to come up with some answers.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:43 pm

Hello Sylvia,

How dreadful, who would have expected that from one inconclusive subsequently clear cow and a single post mortem. I will be hoping and praying that you have found out the worst and find no more on future tests. I have heard of some other cases where a surprising number of animals in a group were reactors - one was in the south of Scotland and I don't think they ever did trace where the infection came from, there was no movement history from TB hotspots or contact with neighbours.

Since the steers were a separate group and the cows are virtually clear it may be confined to the steers.

I am fortunate to live in an area where TB is virtually unknown, and contacts through DCS and this board make me acutely aware of how fortunate we are here. I really do feel for you in such a situation,

best wishes,

Duncan

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:58 pm

I know all too well the old adage 'where there is livestock there is deadstock', Woodmagic, but it really does beggar belief how these steers can have all become such significant reactors (my vet who has been in practise for a long time had never seen such large reactions) since February 06 when they tested clear.

Mark, we have been here 6 years but my contractor has known the farm since the 60s and he knows of no previous TB here. I mentioned the worming for no other reason that the steers all had it and the rest of the herd didn't - not because I have any reason to believe it is implicated. The steers have been at one end of the farm and the rest at the other end. We have badgers on the farm but they wander all over the place, ditto foxes and rabbits so I doubt that is relevant either.

Of course they were all brought together to the same barn, which is set up for putting them through the crush, for the purposes of the test. Which we innocently thought was a formality. My fear now is that I might, over the next few months, lose the whole herd as we go through the necessary re-tests. Also my alpaca herd could be at risk.

Of course if, when the steers are slaughtered, they are not found to have TB it will just be a criminal waste. And more proof that the tests are faulty.

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:37 pm

Sylvia, will they retest before slaughter? Couldn't they be slaughtered the usual way and then if they are clear, the meat then be used? This is devastating for you. I am very sorry,

Kathy

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:05 pm

Hello Kathy, this is the first time this has happened to the herd so I'm not well informed at present but reactors are slaughtered without re-testing. Some sort of compensation is paid. If they are found to be clear after slaughter then you just have to consider yourself lucky that it wasn't TB after all!!! IF TB is found, 2 more whole herd tests will have to be carried out. Any reactors at those tests would have to be slaughtered. And 2 more tests again I suppose. Inconclusives have to be tested again until they test clear (I'm not sure if they get 2 or 3 re-tests) if still inconclusive they are slaughtered too. There seems to be plenty of anecdotal information that the tests are not that reliable either way, giving false positives and false negatives but these are only proved after slaughter which is not a lot of help. At present it is just a matter of waiting to see what happens.

John C · Post by **John C** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:03 pm

Sylvia
I'm totally gutted for you.
I've got my first test since starting to re keep cattle this Tuesday.

forestblaze · Post by **forestblaze** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:49 pm

Sylvia, it is very interesting that you had used a wormer on the steers prior to testing but not on your cows, also check to see what vacine the vet used if they used English but have used the Dutch measurement table they are wrong, you may have some bargaining power, I have the phone number of someone in Cornwall (a Farmer)who is one of the countries leading authorities in this area and I know they would be prepared to advise you if you wish, there are reasons other than TB that cattle react to the TB test, you must feel devastated but do not give up, if you want to call me you can get me on 07958 920430 and I can pass on our colleaques number to you, also I would be interested in knowing what part of the country you are in.

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:03 am

Hello Forestblaze, thank you for your comments. I do live in a TB hot spot - Carmarthenshire, South West Wales and this is a dedicated agricultural area, so plenty of other bovines in the vicinity At present I have a vet coming out to see me tomorrow (Thursday) and a valuer (on Friday) to see the steers and they now want an inconclusive cow as well. I have Ram Testing today (the Ram genotyping scheme- nothing sinister) but I'll try to ring you this afternoon.

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:39 am

Do you have a number of Badgers and other wild creatures that can spread Tb? Until these vectors are dealt with, you are fighting a losing battle.

I hope the government will give you adequate compensation for your loses.

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:03 am

Yes, Inger, a losing battle is how this feels at present. All my steers and the IR cow go on Wednesday. I have to isolate another 8 cows which have moved up to IR on the severe test (these include some of my dear favourites). I wouldn't call the payment we get compensation, it is more of a token gesture in Wales. We will know on Wednesday if TB is confirmed. An interesting circumstance is looming. Tests are 60 days apart, by the time the next one comes around all my cows should probably be in. I do not want to "contaminate" another barn (which is used for other animals in any case), so either they all go into the same barn by the time of the next test and spend the winter together or I leave them out to wreck fields which said barn was built (at considerable cost) to avoid. I will also be at odds with cross compliance if I allow fields to be poached. We wait with bated breath for Wednesday.

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:37 am

Well, 21 steers and 1 cow went yesterday at 6am. Later in the day I heard that 15 of the steers had visible lesions in various places. The cow was inconclusive. The rest showed no visible signs. The infected animals were right across the age group from oldest to youngest. I feel absolutely gutted. And I just do not understand how animals who looked so healthy can be so badly infected. It makes no sense at all.