Duncan must immigrate

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:51 pm

Duncan, I see you are listed as on line at the moment. I think Vancouver Island needs your services here. You have a great sense of humour, a no nonsense approach and really know your stuff especially with sheep. My vets are really nice guys but sometimes I think they are a little too laid back and as there aren't a lot of sheep around here, are not all that good at diagnosing less common problems. Thank goodness for the internet! And thank you, Duncan, for taking the time to write such thorough replies on this List.

Kathy

...but if your accent is very strong, would we be able to understand you????

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:05 pm

Hello Kathy,

thanks for the kind comments, sorry no plans to emmigrate at present, maybe I enjoy the wind and rain too much. Very likely.
I suspect I appear to be on line a lot more than I really am as I switch between different sites and do not always log of properly!
Of course, I do not know everything, one good aspect of this site is that we often get a spectrum of informed replies, even if we are not always in total agreement.

Duncan

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:38 pm

Ooooooo No Kathy! We will keep Duncan chained the Bute - we need him!
Actually, you would understand him very easily, his accent, though scottish is of the quiet, soft variety - not like our local dialect in South West Scotland!
Jo

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:29 am

My goodness, Duncan, you would have loved it here for the last month! We had record rainfall and it sure blew hard a few times. Do folks in the UK really overwinter some livestock without shelter? This topic comes up quite frequently with my husband because he really gets annoyed with me if I don't provide shelter for my livestock during the summer (when it rains very seldom!) And I have Shetland sheep and Dexter cattle. Please tell me if I am being cruel not giving them shelter in the summer (it is seldom windy here). They do have sheds for the winter and if it is raining really hard, I don't let the sheep out at all!

Kathy :p

Louisa Gidney · Post by **Louisa Gidney** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:11 am

Yes, it's quite true. Most commercial sheep outwinter without shelter. I'm looking forward to seeing Duncan's expression at the thought of bringing all the Scottish Blackface sheep indoors in summer every time it rains....
I'm no expert but I would be worried about pneumonia if sheep were indoors on a wet summer day. Or flystrike.

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:51 am

Kathy our Shetland sheep stay out all year with hay in covered feeders in the winter, the only exception is that the ewes come in for lambing (about a month in the spring). This is to protect the lambs from foxes and so we can deal with the rare problems more easily. The Dexters are in during the winter to protect the land from poaching. Our climate is damp!!! but never very, very hot and seldom more than slightly frosty in the winter. I bet your Shetlands are happy, I know that sheep kept with goats quickly take up the goats' habit of running in when it rains and yours appear to have achieved this luxury all by themselves. I do hope they don't e(we)-mail mine:D

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:58 pm

In the west of Scotland we have very high rainfall and few days or nights in any winter when the mud is frozen. Generally sheep are outside all year round, some early lambing flocks are indoors for lambing, but the later lambing ones are never inside. My own North Ronaldsay sheep are never in and never fed any concentrate and might get hay if there is deep snow but this is rare - certainly not for several years.
We have kept Dexters and Fell Ponies out all year, but the resultant damage to the grass takes more than the next year to recover. They are really only in to protect the next spring's grass. On Bute dairy cows are inside in winter and generally fed silage or balanced mixed feed eg on Keenan systems. In times past kale was grown as a winter crop and they would have been let out every day to eat it. We have one herd doing this this winter, half of the herd are pure Jerseys, and are doing very well. The island will have about 3000 dairy cows and the same beef sucklers. Quite a number of the beef cows are never inside.
As Louisa says, it would raise a few eyebrows to have blackface sheep heading for shelter - at any time of year let alone in summer. When I was a boy our hill sheep were never inside, and got absolutely no supplimentary feeding. If any were taken in for any reason eg difficult lambing or to twin on a lamb if they had lost one, it was always a difficult business to get them to eat any food - just did not know what it was. In these days older ewes would be brought in to fields for an easier year or two having cross lambs, and perhaps 10% of these would never learn to take any concetnrate or hay. These would generally be 5 or 6years old, but I do remember one being brought in who had produced a lamb on the hill up to the age of 12. She lived for two years in the fields but never had another lamb!

Duncan, relieved not to have been voted into exile :laugh:

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:07 am

I too have Shetland sheep as well as Dexters Kathy and they stay out all year round. For my convenience they are brought near an open shed when within about a week of lambing. I then put them into a pen with their lambs or, unusually, if I have seen them near the pens, i will put the ewe in prior to lambing only if she is content to do so. I believe in minimum interference and so far that has paid off. 75 live lambs out of 42 ewes last year... only lost one of the 75. This year will probably be a nightmare year!
The Dexters are out all year too, 4 of my 18 are in the open shed just now as I am running out of fields and I have 2 bulls.
The horses are not in the fieldshelter field this winter but the field they are in gives shelter from all directions and they are fed for warmth. They really appreciate the fieldshelter in summer to avoid flies and v. hot sun.
Here we do worry about sheep getting pneumonia if kept indoors.
we each do what suits our stock and our handling systems though - not much set in stone for all of us to do!
Jo

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:40 pm

Hi Kathy; Hate to say it but our Icelandic sheep, another european short tail, winter out of doors also, as a matter of fact so do my Dexters, with field leans for shelter. Pnuemonia is our concern in barning the animals too. Besides, they seem to coat up and brave the -20C nights without a problem....maybe a little extra grain for heat. I would think that they would believe the Scottish moores a tropical paradise!! On the brough side of things; my father is from Ayrshire and we never thought that his accent was very strong and yet my francophone husband still has some problems understanding after 18 years. Come to think of it there are times that the 'mis' understanding is mutual....hmm awfully convenient!!! Liz

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:27 pm

I believe native sheep, horses and cattle can stand cold if it is dry and they can get out of the wind. It also encourages them to grow a decent coat. They do eat more when out in wintertime though.
Jo
PS Love the 'mis'understandings Liz!

hazel clarke · Post by **hazel clarke** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:43 pm

Hi, just thought I had to make a comment on this one! Years ago when I kept Shetland sheep I decided to make lambing easier for them and brought my couple of dozen into a nice airy shed. Slowly one by one they turned up their toes and died. Numerous visits from a very helpful vet could find no reason and eventually I could not just watch that anymore and let those that remained out of the shed. I lost no more that year, so I can only assume that the strees of being in a shed must have had something to do with our sad losses. So at least in my case a well sheltered feild seemed to be by far the best option for these tough sheep!
Hazel
P.S. I agree with Jo, we could not possibly let Duncan go!:

mindenho · Post by **mindenho** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:23 pm

I had a similar experience to Hazel with my Black Welsh Mountain which I have had for 30 years. The only year I tried to bring them in for lambing I lost several ewes and lambs.

However I do bring the Dexters in to an open barn over winter because we are on heavy clay and they cause too much poaching. Most of them calve March/April and don't seem to mind being in.
Erica

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:06 pm

I have brought in an elderly cow (15) her 6 month old calf and a heifer for my convenience. The shed is open and airy but I know that when I am able to put them out again the young ones are going to go mad with joy...it is Soooo boring in a shed and even old Peeweet will trot around with them!
Yes Hazel, I don't shut in my Shetlands until they have lambs (for 24-48 hours) but what a dramatic response you had!
Jo

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:40 am

Wow, food for thought! But I just can't seem to get this straight even though I have been to the UK 3 times and seen animals out on the hills. So please help me out: I have small paddocks with generally no trees in them but there is often a forest on one side (or more). Would it not be unhealthy in the cold and wet to not offer them ANY overhead shelter? And once the lambs are a few days old, surely they would need to have some overhead shelter available if it is raining? I am beginning to think that my idea of shelter is not the same as yours. These are not rough hilly pastures with big bushy hedges and rock walls to shelter against, just wire fences. Oh, and my barn is quite open and airy as are my sheds and they are only inside overnight or when they are in the lambing jugs.

Kathy

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:37 pm

Your sheds Kathy seem as open as mine and when I put the lambs out I provide a straw shelter for them. Are your field very flat? my sheep use the humps and bumps in the land to get out of the wind. The dykes (dry stone walls) are a great boon but hedging is also a good shelter. I agree that fencing is not much help. I say again, we each do what works for us and our animals - no hard and fast rules but I have been able to say to prospective buyers of semen in Canada, that my bull winters outside on haylage only and I do believe that animals can be made 'soft'
Jo