Dexter in the paper - TB or not TB?

The Whitfield Herd · Post by **The Whitfield Herd** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:33 pm

You may have seen an article in today's paper (Telegraph at least) about a lady who is resisting having her bull calf destroyed as it tested "positive" to TB. She has 12 of these "rare" animals, and believes that this particular little fellow (horned by the way - isn't she asking for trouble?) consitutes a major element of the futue of her "business".

With a fully mature steer worth about £200 down my way, and a bull, well you couldn't give it way if you tried, I'd like to hear more about her marvellous "business".

I have a herd of over 30, and not fooling myself that they're worth the money that it cocts to feed them. Or have I missed something? :p

jeanthomas · Post by **jeanthomas** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:40 pm

Is this the herd featured on Jeremy Vine programme - Radio 2 - yesterday. Apparently these beasts are very rare because of their colour - brindle!

The Whitfield Herd · Post by **The Whitfield Herd** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:11 pm

Ahah!!

That's where I'm going wrong! All I need to do is breed some green ones to satiate world demand, I'll be rich... :laugh:

TonyH · Post by **TonyH** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:36 pm

On the subject of TB testing, I see now that from February animals over 15 months are to be subject to 'pre-movement' tests, or at least we are down in the Westcountry where we are tested every 12 months. Luckily, we have our own bull but I would have thought that for those people who have a small herd or don't have the facilities to keep a bull, hiring is no longer going to be a viable option as the four visits from the vet (one to test and one to check before he leaves and the same before he comes home) have to be paid for by us rather than DEFRA like in the annual tests. I guess it is necessary to try and control the disease but there are apparently no exceptions for movements betwen herds that have never had a reactor.
We normally set up a 'link' at the BCMS with a neighbouring holding so that we can send our hooligans across the road for late summer grazing. When I rang the BCMS helpline to confirm that this would not be affected by pre-movement testing (as the linked holdings means it is not an official movement), the lady said ''ooh that's a good one...I don't know!'' Brilliant.

Jim Taylor · Post by **Jim Taylor** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:19 pm

I didn't read the Telegraph article but I did hear the BBC's Farming Today interview with the woman concerned. Yes you have missed something. Perhaps you would like to hear it for yourself on http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/farmin ... ndex.shtml. Click on Tuesday. I wholehartedly support what she is doing and the stance she has taken againsed the bully boy tactics of DEFRA. Good luck to her.
Whats wrong with horned cattle anyway?

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:42 am

The situation regarding bovine TB in UK is indeed a sad tale. When I was at Uiniversity in the early 1970's we were told that there were perhaps 6 parishes in Gloucestershire and Somerset where TB cases still occurred. TB had been rife throughout the UK and between the 1940's and 1970's the battle was almost won. Even back in these days badgers were suspected, but our lecturer's opinion was that it was more likely an old tuberculous tramp shitting at the back of a hedge causing the problem. The last map circulated by DEFRA, which I presume all farmers in England and Wales as well as Scotland, received, paint a very nasty picture with a substantial proportion of the country coloured red, having 12 month testing interval due to number of outbreaks in the area. Many of these areas are geographically far removed from the original hot spots, and it is ludicrous to suggest that badgers have been responsible for much of the spread. Many other areas of the country supported a large badger population when TB was widespread in the local cattle, but the standard testing system was up to the job of irradicating the disease. This suggests to me that a change occurred at some point in the Gloucester and Somerset areas where a strain of TB evolved which is easily harboured in the local wildlife, especially badgers. It is easy to say this in retrospect, but if that had been spotted at the time and a much stricter regime put in place for the cattle in the affected areas combined with local culling of badgers, the matter would have been resolved.

Sadly we cannot turn the clock back and now have to face the fact that large areas of UK are in a mess, but other areas are comparatively free. The two types of area, ie those where badgers are a reservoir, and those where there is no reservoir and very few cases, present two different problems requiring completely different approaches.

We have to realise that badgers do not spread the disease large distances, but cattle do, and when modern bovine TB enters a new area it may become established in the badgers and become a permanent problem. That to me means that the only way to prevent the problem areas extending is to completely ban the movement of all cattle out of affected areas into clean areas, very unpopular, but the only way I can see to prevent the devastation of the last 30 years getting worse.

Then we need to tackle the areas where TB has become endemic, and whereas in the 40's and 50's tackling the disease in cattle alone was sufficient we need to recognise that the wildlife, or badgers at least, are a serious problem. Over quite large areas of the country the badgers sadly should be exterminated, whilst even stricter testing regimes applied to cattle. This will not be likely to be compatable with any vaccination as the tests would interfer. Much research has gone into blood tests etc but at the end of the day they are not as reliable nor as practicable as the old skin test. We do not have another 10 years to perfect either vaccination or better tests, the situation is moving too fast for that. We just need to bite the bullet and get on with it.

Culling badgers out of large areas may seem harsh, but the liklihood of managing the problem without this is small. The fact is that the areas culled out woud over a large number of years be recolonised slowly, and if a large enough safety area was culled beyond the infected areas the infection would be gone before badgers recolonised. Simply killing off a few badgers in infected areas will not work as they woud just reinhabit the infected setts. I am old enough to remember the advent of myxomatosis in our area, and though we never saw a rabbit for a decade they are now as plentiful as ever. Much better to adopt a realistic cull of infected badgers and ensure slow recolonisation by healthy ones. No-one should imagine that having TB is a nice life for a badger.

Three years ago on the Island of Bute we had an old cow in an almost closed dairy herd go down as a reactor. In past times we would have pled for a re-test and hoped that she passed. With the worsening situation elsewhere the ministry insisted that she be slaughtered, and lo and behold there were lesions at post mortem. Subsequent testing and retesting of the entire herd has revealed no more cases. I am extremely glad she was found before any more spread occurred. We do not have any badgers on the island.

Duncan,

just waiting for the flack from all my friends in the Southwest.

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:36 am

In Kent we are on 4 yearly tests for TB, so are quite lucky but I really feel for the people affected by this horid disease. The last few years has seen the powers that be stumble around like a drunk on a night out, no sense of direction and unable to see the facts or take advice.
To eradicate the disease decisions have to be made that will not be well recieved in some quarters, and the government is so afraid of the backlash from these people that they have been putting the decision off. But the time draws near when action must happen. Whatever side of the fence you are on in the badger debate, you cannot deny that things cannot carry on like this for much longer.
I agree with what you say Duncan, badgers in some areas will become a rare sight for a few years, I think that is preferable to cattle become rare in those areas. In my mind,the problem is that the badger lobby do not realise how serious this situation is, thousands of cattle are slaughtered every year because of this and it is becoming a financial burden that government cannot keep justifying. The sooner they make a start in doing the inevitable the beter in my eyes.

ann · Post by **ann** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:47 pm

I'm am currently lucky as I am in a clean area, however I surport the ladies stance because it may bring it home to the general public that cows & calves have the same rights to live as badgers and if it is drawn to the attention of the average Joe public how much all this is costing them maybe a badger cull in some area's will be more acceptable. Two of my siblings got T.B from drinking home produced milk, thankfully that does not happen these days, but I wonder what the reaction would be if T.B jumped to cats or dogs, which in area's where the badger has moved in to urban areas, must surely be a possability if the stem of TB is not halted.

I'm sure Duncan will put me right if this is not a possability, but if we can get flue from ducks, I would have thought our dogs and cats are at risk in area where people have started feeding badgers.

JMHO

Ann

The Whitfield Herd · Post by **The Whitfield Herd** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:55 pm

But..should this woman be breeding "brindled" Dexters (dictionary describes as "brownish with streaks of grey or black)? I thought the only acceptable colours were red black and dun?
What on earth is the market for a brindled dexter?

Ken Hobbs · Post by **Ken Hobbs** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:42 pm

We must look at both sides to this story,support for her stand on not having the animal put down when over 70% of culled animals comes back clear of TB. On the second point of Brindled Dexters, most know that brindle does not meet breed standards and has been noted by council for investigation. We do not all want to jump in with two feet to decry the lady at this time when the media is making such a fuss.

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:22 pm

Duncan - you are absolutely right! I wish DEFRA etc would get on with it before TB spreads throughout the country. They should explain to the badger lovers that if the disease does spread further then even more badgers would be killed.

Rare brindle Dexters! what next?
Jo

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:23 pm

I have been told, on good authority that the person with 'brindle dexters' does take them to shows and is, of course put to the bottom of the line! Surely the society should explain that they are not regarded as dexters and therefore they do not qualify for the class in the show? If she is able to enter cattle in the Dexter classes, everyone will believe the animals are Dexters.
'Fraid someone will have to bite a bullet or two or change the specification!
Jo

Ken Hobbs · Post by **Ken Hobbs** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:10 pm

The Society does say that Brindle is not accepted as Breed Standard, can " the good authority" inform the Society which shows she has been with her animals and who were the judges. because what we have here is condeming a breeder on third party evidence and hearsay. Have you seen the animal in question?

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:38 am

I had a brindle coloured Dexter bull calf, which I steered. They do turn up sometimes and I don't begrudge anybody breeding them, if it takes their fancy, but they can't be registered. I guess the lady is entitled to call them rare, as they are uncommon, but I guess their genetic value is in the eye of the beholder.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:22 am

Brindle is parhaps more common in Dexters than is commonly acknowledged. In the years I inspected at Stoneleigh sale several were rejected because of brindle, varied from scarecly noticeable because it was so dark to wonderful tiger stripes which I have to say was quite attractive but obviously not an accepted breed colour. Breed standards have to mark boundaries, and it is probably complicated enough having 3 colours. The brindles I saw showed big variation which would also in my mind make it a difficult colour to accept. Whilst it is possible it has lurked in the breed for a very long time it is probably more likely to have been acquiired from graded up introductions. We also see blacks with red stripe on back, probably also evidence of introduced genes.

Duncan