Dexter Sale at Exeter Livestock Market

[strawberriesclint]

Hi everyone

There is a Rare and Native Breed sale to include Dexters at Exeter Livestock Market on the 20th August,it's their 6th annual Sale.
Looks like their is quite a few entered so should be a good sale.

Cyndy

[strawberriesclint]

I would just like to say how disappointed I was with the sale at Exeter, we entered 24, what waste of time and effort. We spent all day the day before cleaning and clipping them, ready for the sale and they looked lovely.
I had high hopes for good prices but was sadly disappointed, if the Dexter breed is to survive people need to be educated on what a decent price for a Dexter is as there seems to be too many people wanting them cheap.
As a society we should all have a set price for certain age or type of Dexter sold eg a standard price for cow and calf.At least some sort of guidance and make sure people who want them pay a decent price, if we all stuck together we could change how people think because if we don't I can't see a future for Dexters.
How sad!

[Jac]

I would just like to say how disappointed I was with the sale at Exeter, we entered 24, what waste of time and effort. We spent all day the day before cleaning and clipping them, ready for the sale and they looked lovely.
I had high hopes for good prices but was sadly disappointed, if the Dexter breed is to survive people need to be educated on what a decent price for a Dexter is as there seems to be too many people wanting them cheap.
As a society we should all have a set price for certain age or type of Dexter sold eg a standard price for cow and calf.At least some sort of guidance and make sure people who want them pay a decent price, if we all stuck together we could change how people think because if we don't I can't see a future for Dexters.
How sad!

How really disappointing. I have been on my soap box about this situation for a few years now. The Dexter breed has not moved on in prices in the past 20 years. Setting prices in itself* doesn't seem to help where there is over supply in the area so if you hold your price people will buy less in those circumstances. I have to say personally I am not a fan of markets (rare breed or otherwise) for young/breeding stock as I think it does our breed a great disservice if prices are low.

The margins for beef production at present when obtaining the recommended price are fairly small for the work that is involved which is not insignificant. When beef producers eventually get into a situation where demand for their product exceeds supply it is an obvious choice to buy in stock cheaper than they can breed/rear it for themselves (is that what was happening at the sale?) or they would simply just breed some more of their own in the longer term.

I never set out to be a beef producer but I have found it is a good way to improve the quality of my breeding herd and thus maintain a realistic price for any surplus breeding stock. I try only to increase numbers to satisfy predicted demand - any surplus goes into the food chain if I do not get my price (recommended retail value of the meat less processing costs as a starting point). It must be rather worrying when breeding for numbers to sell on or as a by-product of showing because the costs involved retaining stock that doesn't sell is not sustainable.

I wouldn’t swap the Dexter for any other breed they are just perfect for my situation but I had to cut my cloth accordingly. I am not an economist but I suppose *you could (in theory) collectively artificially 'fix' prices for breeding animals but only if you have an outlet for the ones that don't sell alive (assuming that you can finish them at a profit and are not averse to beefing females).

[jems5]

what were the prices at this sale please

[Jac]

what were the prices at this sale please

Sale report now out

https://www.kivells.com/agricultural-an ... le-reports

[Boofarm]

I would just like to say how disappointed I was with the sale at Exeter, we entered 24, what waste of time and effort. We spent all day the day before cleaning and clipping them, ready for the sale and they looked lovely.
I had high hopes for good prices but was sadly disappointed, if the Dexter breed is to survive people need to be educated on what a decent price for a Dexter is as there seems to be too many people wanting them cheap.
As a society we should all have a set price for certain age or type of Dexter sold eg a standard price for cow and calf.At least some sort of guidance and make sure people who want them pay a decent price, if we all stuck together we could change how people think because if we don't I can't see a future for Dexters.
How sad!

It is always disapointing not to achieve what you consider a realistic price but it is unlikely that the poor prices were a result of too many people wanting them cheap, rather too few people wanting them at all.

Having a set price is not in my view a realistic option - what are you going to do with the beast when the prospective buyer refuses to pay the set price? We are currently selling 6-8 beasts a year for beef and the prices for steers (assuming ages of about 12 months) look reasonable to me

Cheers
mac

[Jac]

Mac said
prices for steers (assuming ages of about 12 months) look reasonable to me

Had a quick look at the catalogue and I believe they were just over 16 months old. Now I didn't see them so can't comment on what they looked like (I suspect the more expensive one was a n/s) But if 320gns is a good price for a beast of that age then if I say, that I had to send one of mine (n/s) in early for the Christmas trade at 17 months (162kg d/w) and obtained a retail price of £1,187.28p does that make a difference? Pic at the bottom so folk who are not doing that sort of thing can get an idea of size/age/weight.

Mac said
what are you going to do with the beast when the prospective buyer refuses to pay the set price?

It does depend on the type of the animals you are producing, but beef it yourself I say but make sure you are legal** first to get the correct price. That said, I believe the person starting the thread has a farm shop so not sure what is going on in that particular area with the beef prices/demand?

** I would be happy to give any member of the society assistance to do this - just ask.

[Boofarm]

Mac said
prices for steers (assuming ages of about 12 months) look reasonable to me

Had a quick look at the catalogue and I believe they were just over 16 months old. Now I didn't see them so can't comment on what they looked like (I suspect the more expensive one was a n/s) But if 320gns is a good price for a beast of that age then if I say, that I had to send one of mine (n/s) in early for the Christmas trade at 17 months (162kg d/w) and obtained a retail price of £1,187.28p does that make a difference?

The returns on a beast are entirely dependent on your marketing options - using the figures above you are able to achieve a price of £7.30 per Kg Dwt - which is well above general market average. I am selling at £5.50Kg Dwt - which I will increase over time, that having been said we make a similar gross return on a beast (assuming similar costs) since we are processing them at 200-220 Kg at 28-30 months. I have never had a beast that I would kill at 17 month.

We have bought a number of calves in the last couple of years and paid between 1.30 and 1.75 a Kg liveweight - the last calves we bought were a year old and worked out at £1.50 per Kg - they will wash their face when processed - at anything more it becomes less and less worthwhile for me to buy them.

So no - your pricing on a beast killled early for Xmas would not make a difference to my valuation of cattle in the market and although the amounts paid for the steers are not generous they are, in my view, realistic. I will stand by my point that there are a very limited number of people looking for these animals.

It does depend on the quality of the animals you are producing, but beef it yourself I say but make sure you are legal** first to get the correct price. That said, I believe the person in question has a farm shop so not sure what is going on in that particular area with the beef prices/demand?
** I would be happy to give any member of the society assistance to do this - just ask.

I have yet to encounter any member of the public who has heard of the Dexter Beef Scheme or has any interest in the mark, nor in my experience is there a queue of people looking to buy dexter beef - certainly we have to get out and sell it and the Dexter Mark makes no difference whatever to pricing.


Regards
Mac

[Jac]

Mac said
I have yet to encounter any member of the public who has heard of the Dexter Beef Scheme or has any interest in the mark, nor in my experience is there a queue of people looking to buy dexter beef - certainly we have to get out and sell it and the Dexter Mark makes no difference whatever to pricing.

Now we are getting somewhere. What do you think could be done to improve things? We'll add them to the other list 'Moving Forward'. Although I think top of the list should be a private discussion board in the members area on the DCS web site ASAP or our competitors will be moving even further forward themselves.

Sorry Mac missed some of your post

So no - your pricing on a beast killed early for Xmas would not make a difference to my valuation of cattle in the market and although the amounts paid for the steers are not generous they are, in my view, realistic. I will stand by my point that there are a very limited number of people looking for these animals.

We hang and cut it is damn hard work, marketing/selling the beef requires much application as I am sure you are aware. I wouldn't want to be a beef producer, I didn't choose to do this apart from home use, I feel it isn't right to launch anything and everything on the market as breeding stock (you can 'breed up' - it's your prefix for pity's sake!) and call me selfish if you like but I'll be b******d if I am going to give them away for less than the cost of production why should anyone else? I love my Dexters - break me in half and like a stick of rock you will see 'Dexter' imprinted right the way through. Uncontrolled breeding isn't sustainable selling them for less than the cost of production isn't either. I believe I know what is causing this situation and it is not going to be easy to fix.

I never had a beast that would kill at 17 months

Not sure how to take that but will be happy to post a pic of the slaughter tags if you ask (which I clean and retain for traceability). The ability to get them to an acceptable weight early is sometimes an advantage as producing stock to a high standard costs money . My males would be finishing around your weights (200kg min) at 24 months just looked at another doing 193kg at 21 months. Rarely run the males on later because we are not strong enough to lift them (in quarters) onto the rail in the cold room. Yes, I could do it much cheaper but they are my standards because I am aiming to produce the best stock for breeding as I possibly can but I am not aiming specifically at the beef market as we are a dual purpose breed. I know if Rob was here he would say his aim is to get them to 'cling to a rock and eat moss' and accept a lighter finishing weight at full term. But that is another debate....

[Boofarm]

Now we are getting somewhere. What do you think could be done to improve things? We'll add them to the other list 'Moving Forward'. Although I think top of the list should be a private discussion board in the members area on the DCS web site ASAP or our competitors will be moving even further forward themselves.

That is a very good question and I wish I had a good answer. The only things that sring to mind are to continue marketing and pushing the plus points of the beef and to try to work together with other producers where opportunity offers. I would endorse your suggestion for the DCS website al - I hardly ever go there because there is no forum and we owe a major vote of thanks to the operator of this site.

Sorry Mac missed some of your post

We hang and cut it is damn hard work, marketing/selling the beef requires much application as I am sure you are aware. I wouldn't want to be a beef producer, I didn't choose to do this apart from home use, I feel it isn't right to launch anything and everything on the market as breeding stock (you can 'breed up' - it's your prefix for pity's sake!) and call me selfish if you like but I'll be b******d if I am going to give them away for less than the cost of production why should anyone else? I love my Dexters - break me in half and like a stick of rock you will see 'Dexter' imprinted right the way through. Uncontrolled breeding isn't sustainable selling them for less than the cost of production isn't either. I believe I know what is causing this situation and it is not going to be easy to fix.

We have our beasts processed by an independent butcher, having enough to be getting along with without learning another trade and developing suitable premises. We did choose to be beef producers after we became involved with Dexters and are trying to make a small herd of dexters pay its way among our other cattle. Your other points I accept but to an extent I am approaching from the opposite direction. I am currrently buying store animals to finish, as well as breeding my own. I know my costs of production fairly well and I know what I can get out of a finished beast - and we are not far apart on that.

Not sure how to take that but will be happy to post a pic of the slaughter tags if you ask (which I clean and retain for traceability). The ability to get them to an acceptable weight early if I have to (not by intensive farming methods) is my advantage as producing stock to a high standard costs money. My males would be finishing around your weights (200kg) at 24 months just looked at another doing 193kg at 21 months. Rarely run them on later because we are not strong enough to lift them (in quarters) onto the rail in the cold room. Yes, I could do it much cheaper but they are my standards because I am aiming to produce the best stock for breeding as I possibly can but I am not aiming specifically at the beef market as we are a dual purpose breed. I know if Rob was here he would say his aim is to get them to 'cling to a rock and eat moss' and accept a lighter finishing weight at full term. But that is another debate....

My statement was intended as an entirely factual comment on the cattle passing through my hands, and was in no way intended to reflect on your animal - which was obviously a good beast. We make much of the fact that our animals are entirely grass fed, and we would be unlikely to kill anything under 27months since it is a personal opinion they are better at that age. We are strongly focused on animals that will achieve a decent size and they are fed accordingly but only grass and minerals.

We do not aim to produce breeding dexters because there appears to be little market for them. The prices obtained at Exeter are in line with other Dexter sales mentioned on this forum to the best of my recollection and it will be interesting to see how both Lanark and Carlisle go.

Cheers
ac

[Jac]

Mac said
We do not aim to produce breeding dexters because

there appears to be little market for them

.

I breed for improvement because there is a reason there is little market for the breed. Build a better mousetrap ......

[Saffy]

Just a comment about producing beef at 17 months. When I first started with Dexters among the few I bought was a weaned steer calf but I don't think he was castrated well and his behavior became erratic. He went in my freezer at 17months. This was despite being advised that the beef would not be any good at this age!!! It was wonderful, virtually no "visible" fat but wow it was so good and yes the flavour was there. And he was only a smidgen lighter than the ones I did afterwards that were much older. He was only fed grass and clover. Best beef of all the ones I have done.

Stephanie

[Jac]

I would like to ask Mac but please feel free to chip in if you are doing the same.

Beef
No sales of breeding stock allowed. Assuming you had sufficient numbers, if you never bought animals in and used only home bred stock could you make it pay at the present time? Would you need to maintain a pedigree herd if you were beefing them if the certification scheme does not affect the price?

From my own perspective I beef a very small number in a 12 month period. I have a loyal customer base who more often than not place an order whenever I am going to send something in. At times I do get a little concerned that there won't be enough to go round and more often than not go short myself up the point where I feel like sneaking one in the freezer and not telling anyone. Speaking to other people it seems that you can sell the beef in the quantity that I do without too much of a problem but beyond that it is an uphill struggle. Since getting a commercial contract with a supermarket is not going to happen. Where do you see the future of the Dexter? Every time the cry of 'we must move forward' is heard, more effort is put into marketing. We then seem to get an influx of enthusiastic recruits who build up some stock 'fail to launch' and drop out almost as quickly as they came in. Is there any justification for encouraging start-ups purely for the production of beef or is it to remain a very limited sideline as part of a modest pedigree breeding programme to keep prices stable?

[Louisa Gidney]

Jac, I feel it's not terribly helpful to post the retail price return of your beef per beast. Of more interest is the actual profit margin achieved when all costs and overheads are taken into account. Do your beasts in fact do more than "wash their face"?
Like Rob, I'm of the "cling to a rock and eat moss" school of cattle rearing. If the prices in the mart are of the general level seen in the example of this Exeter sale, then costs have to be pared to the bone to make a return at such prices. I've had a higher return (£200 more) from an infertile bull in the cull ring than a registered, proven bull at a specialist Dexter sale. The next bull goes straight to the local mart, bypassing this website & the breed sales.

[Jac]

Well Louise,

Do your beasts in fact do more than "wash their face"?

Is there any real money in farming/food production especially with a breed that has no outlet through the normal commercial channels? Although for the larger more acceptable specimens (in your case a bull) you obtained more than you would otherwise. The debate wasn't really about me it was about other breeders having to accept unsustainable prices through rare breed sales when they could obtain the retail meat value for their animals to keep their herds going, albeit on a limited basis. In many cases if they took them into the butchers and paid say £300 to have them processed it may have been a better option than selling them for less (assuming that there is a healthy beef trade at rrp). I am not trying to turn anyone into a commercial beef producer but I just can't get my head around giving them away unless you are relying on them as a source of income (or can't see any future in it) and in that case, I am very sorry that this has happened. Let's hope for better news with the Scottish sale on the 2nd Sept.