Hello, and start up question.

[Hillside Ben]

I had already decided to stick with non shorts.

I've got a ready market for them in terms of the enquiries I've had from current pork and lamb customers. Haven't looked into selling to butchers, or anyone else. The abattoir we use for our pigs and lambs are also a rare breed specialist butcher. They do all our cutting and dressing and box ready for us to deliver out. We sell everything direct to the end consumer.

[Jac]

I had already decided to stick with non shorts.

I've got a ready market for them in terms of the enquiries I've had from current pork and lamb customers. Haven't looked into selling to butchers, or anyone else. The abattoir we use for our pigs and lambs are also a rare breed specialist butcher. They do all our cutting and dressing and box ready for us to deliver out. We sell everything direct to the end consumer.

Well, you seem quite sorted. Good luck with your new venture.

[Hillside Ben]

Thanks very much. No doubt I'll have lots of questions to post up once we get started.

And again Thanks to everyone for their opinions and ideas, I do think Forums like this are invaluable to people starting out. A wealth of experience and ideas.

[Rob R]

I agree - I think they're great for more established breeders too. The online herdbook is a fantastic resource too - no more trailing through the herdbooks to find pedigree information, I can even access it on my telephone.

[davidw]

I wouldn't rely on cattle being halter trained for them to be calm at TB testing time. I have two young bulls, both halter trained and generally quiet. One is very laid back and doesn't flinch when he gets a TB test jab, or when the vet takes a blood sample or even when he was ringed. The other is a big wimp and starts thrashing about when he even sees the vet.
I bought a used crush out of a hedge bottom for £20 and its the best investment I've made.

[Saffy]

At the beginning of this thread there has been some very good advice given about obtaining ones first cattle. Particularly on how to choose good ones and health issues.

I wish to add this post because - I have always isolated new cattle and tested for various infectious diseases as advised by my vet before they join the herd and now I feel I should add an extra add word of caution to all buyers.

Please always isolate new stock and get them tested for infectious diseases as for the first time recently I have bought one in with something nasty and if I hadn't isolated I would likely have infected some of my herd!!!

Also don't rely on the vendor knowing what their stock are, as one vendor was absolutely sure that the cow he was selling was a non short, he had owned her for many years - she was a short cow! Some folks mix up dun and red, the other thing that seems to get confused sometimes is horned and polled because some people call them polled once they have been disbudded but they are still genetically horned.

Stephanie

[Rob R]

Also don't rely on the vendor knowing what their stock are, as one vendor was absolutely sure that the cow he was selling was a non short, he had owned her for many years - she was a short cow! Some folks mix up dun and red, the other thing that seems to get confused sometimes is horned and polled because some people call them polled once they have been disbudded but they are still genetically horned.

Stephanie

I saw one for sale last year that was described as polled, because it had a polled parent, but it also had a large set of horns.

[Jac]

..... get them tested for infectious diseases as for the first time recently I have bought one in with something nasty and if I hadn't isolated I would likely have infected some of my herd!!!

Stephanie

You could always try buying from an 'Elite' health status herd........

[Saffy]

I could Jac and I most certainly would have if they were advertising cattle of the calibre I wanted.

However it was a closed herd and had been since 2008 when the owner bought just one a cow with her own calf from a very famous show herd. He bought nothing else ever, had no other cattle, used AI and double fenced against his neighbours with an area of no mans land in between, in fairness he was careful. There was as little chance of a problem as there could have been but nothing is perfect - not even high health herds, it can still happen, I would still isolate and test.

Stephanie

[Jac]

I could Jac and I most certainly would have if they were advertising cattle of the calibre I wanted.

However it was a closed herd and had been since 2008 when the owner bought just one a cow with her own calf from a very famous show herd. He bought nothing else ever, had no other cattle, used AI and double fenced against his neighbours with an area of no mans land in between, in fairness he was careful. There was as little chance of a problem as there could have been but nothing is perfect - not even high health herds, it can still happen, I would still isolate and test.

Stephanie

The isolation period for Johne's is too long to be practical.

[Saffy]

Jac....the isolation period from the moment the animal arrives on my farm until the result of the blood test for Johnes and of course all the other equally important tests that I get the vet to do at the same time come back is not too long. It is I can assure you - just right. I isolate until I get clear tests, simple as that.

Stephanie

[Jac]

Jac....the isolation period from the moment the animal arrives on my farm until the result of the blood test for Johnes and of course all the other equally important tests that I get the vet to do at the same time come back is not too long. It is I can assure you - just right. I isolate until I get clear tests, simple as that.

Stephanie

I wish it were the case that the blood test was sufficient for Johnes and not the faecal test as well. The last animal I introduced went into isolation on 20th Oct 2011 was tested on 24th Oct 2011 and was not authorised for release until 13th Feb 2012.

[Saffy]

My vet seemed happy to just blood test for Johnes, says he usually only does a faecal test if he has a positive blood test and the owner makes a request - I asked why. He said that is because a faecal test isn't of much use because it is positive sometimes and not others in an animal carrying Johnes, as they don't always throw out the disease. It can be positive for a month or so and not for a month or so....

Stephanie

[Jac]

My vet seemed happy to just blood test for Johnes, says he usually only does a faecal test if he has a positive blood test and the owner makes a request - I asked why. He said that is because a faecal test isn't of much use because it is positive sometimes and not others in an animal carrying Johnes, as they don't always throw out the disease. It can be positive for a month or so and not for a month or so....

Stephanie

Health scheme members don't have that option so there must be a good reason why both tests are required regardless of the results of the blood test.

[Saffy]

I'm not sure how good the reason is. However it is one of the reasons that despite being subsidised pricewise and giving it a "label" to shout about, having discussed it with my vet a few years back I decided I would much prefer to quietly test my animals yearly for my own peace of mind and the sake of any buyers than go on a high health scheme.

This is quite satisfactory even for semen collection for foreign sales and for exporting cattle.

Stephanie