Will clostridium vaccine last for second dose ????

[Ryesdexters]

We are currently vaccinating our dexters against clostridial diseases using covexin 10.
We have given them their first dose and second dose is due in 4-6 weeks.
A few other farmers have said that if we keep the vaccine in the fridge it will be ok to use it for the second dose.
We decided to ask the vets, they said they can't comment as the bottle says use in 8 hrs after open.
So the big question is what to do.???
I know we should do what it says on the package but at the same time at £33 ish per bottle it's worth them writing "use in 8 hours" as everyone needs to buy 2 bottles to do the complete vaccine (if you have a small herd) and that is a BIG money spinner.
On the other hand this may be genuinely written if the product does expire after the 8 hr period.

Please help......

[Colin]

Piece of mind is a big thing. If you use the existing bottle will you always have a nagging doubt they weren't fully covered ? I recall the Bluetongue vaccine had a similar requirement to use within a matter of hours. And I always followed the instructions.

Cost of this stuff is expensive though. Could you share it with another smallholder nearby ?

Regards,

Colin

[Broomcroft]

Personally, I'd get rid and buy a new lot. It might cost but all the money is wasted if it doesn't work! Seems a lot but nothing compared to a dead animal. We lost our £3000 stock bull last year because he hadn't been vaccinated. He got a small scratch on his groin, that was all. Tetanus in this case we think. We not only lost the bull but probably spent another £300 on hassle, vet fees and drugs trying to bring him round.

[Ryesdexters]

Great advice.
This is what I love about the dexter owners I chat to, their love for the animal outweighs the business side. Well maybe not everyone but the most part in my experience!!

Thanks again

[Ryesdexters]

Broomcroft can I ask what vaccine you give for tetanus and how often ??


Regards
Steve

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Please do not think badly of vets for having to go by data sheet conditions of use for medicines. Vaccines usually have very short time after first use because there is possibility of contamination getting in with the needle withdrawing the doses. Vaccine fluid is ideal for bacteria to grow in.For large bottles this should be limited if you use an automatic vaccination gun. Whether you uses a vaccination gun or syringes and needles be very particular about cleanliness around the rubber stopper. Disinfect it with spirit and allow the spirit to dry off if it has got mucky, and if you are withrawing doses into a syringe put one needle into the bottle, and leave it there and put another on to inject the animal. Most vaccines should be stored at 2-8 degrees centigrade, and it is probably more damaging to freeze them than to allow them over 8 for a short time.

The manufacturers are understandably defending themselves in case anyone sues them for reactions or infections, and will no doubt refuse any claim if you have not followed the detail of the instructions. Vets likewise cannot tell you to go against this or they may be held liable. Uncontaminated vaccine is likely to be quite harmless and still effective, that is all I will say.

Other medicines in multidose vials now have to be used within 28 days of opening or the remainder discarded, a recent and most unpopular change with vets, many of whom, like myself, have used many bottles of stuff like tardak or delvosterone (hormones used mainly in dogs and bitches) which have been open for many months. Now we have to discard bottles which have maybe 90% still left. This makes it very difficult to use the products at all, since we do not know how many doses we will need in the 28 days, and if we only use 10% but charge the dose at the right price then we are losing a lot of the cost because our mark up is not as gigantic as many folk seem to think.

Sorry about the rant.

Duncan

[Ryesdexters]

Hi Duncan.
I don't blame you at all for ranting I imagine all the red tape of being a vet drives you nuts!

Very good advice. We use syringes and always use 1 syringe in the bottle to maintain hygiene and change needles for each animal to stop cross contamination. (We only have 8 cows)

Our vets really would have been silly advising us any other way as like you said. If it all goes wrong........ Well lets just say I reckon they get all different kinds of people trying to make liability claims against them.
Thanks again to everyone for your information

[Broomcroft]

Broomcroft can I ask what vaccine you give for tetanus and how often ??

I don't vaccinate, that was possibly the problem. After losing the bull, I was going to start and was recommended something by our vet. But can't remember the precise name, something like Bravovax. Haven't done it yet. I don't know what the vaccine covers. That it was tetanus the bull had, was just a vet's guess.

Only thing we routinely jab for is BVD because ours are inside a lot, especially this year. Will they ever go out again that is the question?

No matter how few animals you have, IMO it's well worth while getting a gun that the bottle will fit on to. Apart from anything else, for things that have a small dosage, like the BVD we use (2ml) I personally think it's a lot easier and less dangerous to use than syringes and needles. When we do BVD I can walk around the cows and do them whilst they are just milling around … not recommending that though!

[Broomcroft]

Steve - What my vet recommended is called Bravoxin 10, just looked at the bottle which I still haven't used. But will do.

[Ryesdexters]

Thanks Broomcroft. What's BVD vaccine? Also what gun is recommended?
Regards Steve

[Broomcroft]

HI Steve

There are various guns but this is a typical one. You plug your bottle on to the spike, prime, then simply inject, withdraw from the animal, then release the trigger so it refills after you have withdrawn from the animal. It's MUCH easier than using a needle and syringe IMO. Some vaccines, such as the one we use for BVD as it happens, are available in small bottles, 5 doses etc.



This gun is quite a complicated one in that it has a little disinfectant pad on the needle so when you withdraw it, the needle gets wiped clean. Personally, I don't use the ones with the pads and have never had a problem I know of. They're not expensive and sometimes free with vaccines if you buy a lot. We clean the gun out with hot water after use ready for next time.

BVD is a disease of cattle that is mainly of concern of cattle kept indoors. I don't know much about it apart from the fact that the result in cattle wasting away and it becoming a whole herd problem, and you can have apparently perfectly fit, good cattle that are the carriers, I think they call them PI's ? Sorry, can't elaborate more but if you google it you'll gets loads of info.

[Colin]

I've not heard of BVD being mainly with indoor cattle. It can be spread nose to nose, but also through urine and faeces. A PI will continually excrete millions of the viruses across the land throughout its life. Many cattle owners will not realise they have it. About a year after we first started, I bought an in calf heifer from a well known breeder. When the calf was about 15 months old I discovered it was a PI. I only found out as I had it and some other calves blood tested due to a few coughs. Just out of interest I asked the vet to check the samples for a range of diseases and we discovered the PI. I slaughtered the PI and for the next few years I both vaccinated for BVD and blood tested annually until our calves had no antibodies and the herd was clear.

After that experience, any Dexters we were interested in buying we arranged to have blood tested on the sellers premises. Not cheap, but two separate sales fell through as the tests picked up Johne's disease from one seller and neosporosis from another. Neither were aware of this. So it turned out to be money well spent. In my experience there's a lot more disease out there than people realise.

We now operate a closed herd, except on the very rare occasions we need to buy a new bull. And he'll not go near our cows nor land without being fully blood tested and quarantined.

Regards,

Colin

[Broomcroft]

I think BVD being referred to as more of a problem indoors is simply that there is more muck about and they are in close contact. But yes, BVD is BVD, indoors or outdoors, especially if you have a PI.

That's why we are closed too.

[Ryesdexters]

Thanks guys for all the info

[Ryesdexters]

http://www.farmanimalhealth.co.uk/cattle-bvd

This links explains it well