Todays thoughts!

[domsmith]

Some might say i have too much time on my hands. But i thought i would put pen to paper to reflect on the results of the day. (keyboard to screen doesnt sound the same)

I still love the Dexter breed, is the first comment. But i see the value of my cows seemingly disapearing, they probably never had the value i attach to them anyway. but recently i have seen so many really cheap cows for sale. the society sale reports dont look great to me either.
So i made a decision to cut back my pedigree cows and this year if anyone has enquired i have followed it up rather than ignore them.
I have made space to bring in the famous "Dangus" heifers this year will see 7 now join my ranks. The idea being that i add a commercial value to my herd. I feel with pedigree dexters if i need to cash in quickly i will get my fingures well and truely burnt off. So with a more commercial type i should get the price i want.
But there has to be a down side. Sure the Angus cross will not be as light on the ground, it will surely eat more and it wont be a guaranteed easy calver. But it will be worth a few quid!
My herd is my living so i have to think about this.
So thats what i have set out to do.

BUT.... today i sold stores at the market. Angus cross dexter steers. i was more than satisfied with the price. £565 14 month old, perhaps weighed 300kg. These have cost me very little, especially when you look back to who the mothers are.
calf 94 mother was 047, a pedigree homebred heifer. calved easily to the angus, eats only grass and licks. out wintered. a very small cow now, weighs in at 300kg! same as the steer.

whats my point? i have a small cow, living cheaply, worth very little, but with ni inputs has produced a calf that sold for £565.
Have i gone wrong in replacing Dexters for Dangus? time will tell in my experiment, but these little cows have something right.

We used to do all the butchering and retailing, i look at the price for the steers as yearlings, i would have to keep them for another 12 months, kill, butcher, pack and sell. whats the point at that price!

[Adam Lowline]

Dom, your discussion of the day was a very interesting one.we have something that might be an alternative to the full sixed Angus. The Australian Lowline (which is a pure bred Angus) only stands about 1.2metres when fully grown. They are easy on the land like the Dexter, they will finish on grass and eat less, easy calfers and docile. We have crossed our Lowline bull with our long legged Dexters and we are very pleased with the results. The bull calf weighed 29kg at birth in -5degrees outside and is now aged 5 months and seems very big to us. I will try and get a weigh tape round him soon.
I will try and upload some pictures.
We feel that the Dexter is more of a milky cow and by crossing it with the purebred Angus Lowline has produced a solid old fashioned meaty suckler calf.
The Dexter and Angus are renowned for their quality meat, by crossings them we feel that you then get the best of both worlds.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts
Thanks Adam

[Jac]

Your thoughts reflect what some have found when they have gone down the route of pedigree breeding - hence 'so many cheap cows for sale. the society reports don't look great to me either'.

My article 'What Price a Dexter?' caused a bit of a stir when it was published in the DCS Bulletin. The Society naturally would like everyone to keep the breed pure as they will lose out on the revenue from registration/membership fees - just think it is a shame they can't give some direction on prices for breeding animals and the £(kg) people should be selling the beef for.

[Rob R]

We used to do all the butchering and retailing, i look at the price for the steers as yearlings, i would have to keep them for another 12 months, kill, butcher, pack and sell. whats the point at that price!

But are you comparing like for like? Were steers making that when you were selling direct or have you dropped off from selling direct as cattle prices have risen? At current prices selling steers is a lot less competitive, but what will the future be in five years? £565 is about £1.80 per kg, but how much of that is down to the crossing, and how much to the current market?

The cost of the cows is always going to be relative to what you can make from them - I have found that quite a lot of people overvalue their cows are worth, particularly when selling single animals - as if transport doesn't come into it for the buyer who needs to see a return on the investment.

The thing that strikes me, when visiting the shows, is still the dominance of the short types in the showring. Shows are supposed to be a 'shop window', yet seeing a short Dexter next to a Hereford in the grand parade does nothing for the breed's image as a commercial animal, IMO. Most people I know who keep Dexters commercially are actually looking to eradicate it from their herds.

As far as crossing goes, it is one of those things - you will always need to maintain some pure lines, but perhaps it is best to reserve your best cows for breeding replacements and cross the rest? In which case you'll always need an outlet for the purebred steers - unless we start using sexed Dexter semen. In theory though crossing should improve the overall price for cows, as the progeny are guaranteed not to contribute to the pool of available cows and only the best will be bred from.

Long term you can sell an Angus x easier & quicker, but that doesn't make the Dexter more valuable, as the further away you get from the Dexter, the more your costs will rise & you end up with it not being worth having the Dexter in the mix at all to get a bigger animal. Equally so, there are far easier ways to make a living than farming (or so it seems), so the further you go down that train of thought, is it really worth making some money from cattle when you could breed a few animals as a hobby & earn more off farm?

[moomin]

Big problem is the reluctance of people to kill poor quality heifers. I send a lot of heifers to the butcher, only keeping the very best for breeding. One reason is I get a good price for them for beef so why should I sell cheaply? Another reason is that I want to see our breed improve and culling heifers is the key to improvement of the national herd.
There is a good market for Dexter beef which has grown enormously lately. I cannot supply demand at times.
You will have to research and find your own market, don't expect to sell them in the commercial market!
If Dexters don't suit you don't keep, nobody is making you!

Di, [who makes a living from her cattle].

P.S. My first cow was an aberdeen angus- old type- crossed with a Dexter which I graded up in the dark ages [1975] so I have been there, got the Tshirt etc. I have crossed with Angus and Murray Gray but came back very quickly to pure Dexter.
PPS the very best quality beef comes from a short leg Dexter heifer so my Great British Menu chef tells me!
Loads of non-short Dexter heifers in the show ring round here, if they are good enough quality they do and will win.

[domsmith]

You will have to research and find your own market, don't expect to sell them in the commercial market!
If Dexters don't suit you don't keep, nobody is making you!


I think you miss my point, the whole thing is Dexters do suit me. But i want a more commercial co(as well as pure dexters) and so am altering it to that ends.

But what you say about keeping the best heifers is absolutely the point, and although you do that clearly most do not.
We could not keep up with Dexter beef demand, that does not make it proffitable or as proffitable as other ways of selling you animals if done right.

Dominic (who also makes his living from dexters... and shetland sheep... and berkshire pigs)

[Rob R]

We could not keep up with Dexter beef demand, that does not make it proffitable or as proffitable as other ways of selling you animals if done right.

Dominic (who also makes his living from dexters... and shetland sheep... and berkshire pigs)

Indeed, the best beef might be from an animal that only yields 80kg of saleable meat, but if you are paying £200 for killing and butchery it's going to cost £1.25 more per kg than an animal producing 160kg. Unless there is to be a price premium for short legged beef it doesn't matter how highly the animal is judged in the show ring, it's never going to appeal as a commercial proposition, especially when it's stood next to a Limmy in the ring.

[Jac]

If Dexters don't suit you don't keep, nobody is making you!

Di, [who makes a living from her cattle].

You might make your living from your cattle now but that isn't how you started off? If it wasn't for the love of the breed I don't think many people would keep them either. Possibly this is why they won't kill off the heifers. The breed does tend to attract those with a smaller acreage and keeping cattle (even small ones) is very expensive when you have limited grazing. The time spent marketing your beef on a slightly larger scale gives you little time for anything else so I would think that this aspect would be a big factor when considering the purebred Dexter as a commercial prospect.
For myself, it is wonderful to be able to give 'scratters' short shrift as I can achieve good prices (in the bag) for any stock I no longer have a use for but whether I would advise someone to deliberately set up in business to 'farm' Dexters I am not so sure.

[Broomcroft]

PPS the very best quality beef comes from a short leg Dexter heifer so my Great British Menu chef tells me!

That maybe what he or she said, but it really isn't true. I've supplied two TV programmes including for the best 5 chefs in the world at the Great British Menu banquet. They had cuts from one of the tallest Dexters I've ever had on the farm. They said it was the very finest beef imaginable, second to none, and he was the Japanese chef god so I imagine he was thinking of Wagyu when he said, he was nothing short of ecstatic.

Shorties will finish on poorer/medium quality grazing more easily and quicker because I believe obesity (and therefore finish?) is a side-effect of chondrodysplasia. But if you have reasonable or good quality grazing, as we have, finishing non-shorts will be just about right and shorties will finish too early before the flavour has fully developed. So it depends. Match your grazing to your cattle is the answer.

[Broomcroft]

Your thoughts reflect what some have found when they have gone down the route of pedigree breeding - hence 'so many cheap cows for sale. the society reports don't look great to me either'.

My article 'What Price a Dexter?' caused a bit of a stir when it was published in the DCS Bulletin. The Society naturally would like everyone to keep the breed pure as they will lose out on the revenue from registration/membership fees - just think it is a shame they can't give some direction on prices for breeding animals and the £(kg) people should be selling the beef for.

Dexterdom could follow the Stabiliser example, I know it's not going to happen but thought I'd mention it anyhow. Prices from breeders in the herd book are fixed by the company and are totally dependent upon the beast's figures, the individual breeder does not set the prices. If you do not wish to pay the price for a given animal, then the animal goes for beef and even if it were sold under the counter for breeding, it would not be recorded in the "herdbook" and so is outside the breed. Animals have to meet certain criteria which comply with the breed requirements, to be accepted into the herd book. For example, no calf born over a certain weight can go on to be a breeding bull.

Prices for breeding heifers are also set by the company, regardless of age, and again dependent on figures and whether they are being graded up. So an F1 breeding heifer will be £950 whether it's 12 months old or 24 months, £1050 for an F2 and £1200+ for 3rd generation, extra for ones with high figures. The company takes a small percentage from each sale, and everything below standard, or indeed not required, gets eaten.

Can't work in Dexterdom because of so many small breeders and it's essential to weigh animals, especially at birth. Nothings perfect, but I like the relative security is gives you, hence I have a Stabiliser bull now which is covering my Dexters and Danguses.

[Rob R]

Interesting comments Clive, I like it! I am going down the route myself of recording, if not birth weights but certainly weaning weights & beyond, and recording these against the dams to get an animal that suits my system. I think that's a better way than showing to achieve consistent results.

[Broomcroft]

The birth weight is essential because the Stabiliser golden chalice is calves born small but then grow well. I agree that visual aspects are important obviously but the main things are as you suggest, things you cannot see such as calving ease, maternal instinct etc.