pushing them too quick to finish

[littleacre]

we have been keeping dexters now for around four years. and have finished 2 or 3 every year, we always leave them as close to 30 months as poss and like to finish on grass only. .. the demand for the meat is growing as is our herd . we have an old school gentleman who is helping us and keeps a few steers at his place . we seem to be getting into cross purposes he in my opinion is trying to rush the finishing of them hes rolling barley feeding potatoes bread etc etc and says the 2 steers he has at present will be done by march they will only be just 24months. he used to be a stockman at a beef unit years ago so he knows his stuff. but if im honest id rather they were just grass or hay silage fed with a bit of concentrate when the weather is bad. im worried the meat will taste and look completely differnt , and that could be detremental to any future beef sales . am i just being too fussey . ??????????

[Jac]

I don't know about the bread and potatoes bit - they are not pigs! Whether to feed or not depends on your ethical stance and resources available. I assume we are talking about winter feeding here and not shutting them in a building all year round. There is general aura of bullshit about the thrifty Dexter which is quickly seized upon by people who don't want to feed them (I'm sure that is not the case with you). This leads to people producing scraggy Dexters that are not worth killing and has not helped their reputation as an emerging commercial breed.
We speak about the health benefits of grass fed beef, but if you do not have access to a fair amount of land and the ability to make your own hay/haylage/silage then you run into difficulties because the quality of forage you can buy varies enormously. I usually finish at 24 months but at the moment am suffering from lack of beef and have had to fill my abattoir slot with one 17 months old (short l/w 305 kgs d/w 149 kgs) . Carcase looks good, small amount of creamy external fat and nice flecks of marbling on what meat is exposed. The abattoir commented that although small it looks 'just right' so I shall take that as a compliment from those used to dealing with commercial cattle. I shall be cutting today and as usual, sampling some before it goes out to my customers - I will let you know how it tastes. It is now just gone half past five and I am away to my cutting room!

[SteveM]

Two heifers killed recently, both straight of the field.

1st less than a week of 30 month so had to go, butcher reckoned she should have been done a month earlier as a bit fat (she probably would have been earlier as well)

2nd was small, thin, if it has been a pig would have been the runt of the litter. Expected it to be mainly mince, was only 100kg dead weight but turned out to be lovely lean beef.

The slaugher house man even commented on how good it had killed out.

[New Dexter Kid]

I've just had a 24 month short bull killed, I had been supplementing its feed with bread as the quality of the grass is very poor at the moment, it has turned out a lovely beast, with lots of comments about the good taste and tenderness of the beef.

The only problem with feeding bread is feeding to much to them, it can put to much fat on them so be carefull, I've never feed potatoes myself but I know lots of farmers that do and they swear by them.
Alistair

[Saffy]

It is difficult to comment, we all have different regimes and different grass and forage quality.

Here we are lucky that our grass is very good quality, we are able to make our own hay, which we usually test so we know what it is like.

Our animals are usually fit off grass/hay at around 24 months, one or two are earlier or later but not everyone has the quality of grass to be able to do this.

When we were dairy farming we used many different feeds including potatoes both for the dairy herd and the beef animals, it is an excellent feed, both for milk and meat production. The only minor worries were that like most concentrates you can feed too much and due to the shape choke is a rare possibility, although we fed 100s of tons over the years without a problem.

Stephanie

[clacko]

the main question in the opening post was aimed towards the taste of a finished animal, grass verses cereal and by/products, cereal based ration will leave a harder fat cover that will be of a harder texture and not disperse as easily through the joint whilst cooking, in my opinion there is no substitute for grass finished, but if i had to buy a meat that needed a cereal ration to finish i would still buy dexter as it will still be leagues in front of most "finished" breeds. i think its more to do with a balanced ration with the starting point being on the quality of your grass as the main inclusion of the diet and then making up a ration to compliment that if needed, we have used veg waste to good effect and the cattle love it and also we have fed cereals to odd animals to give a bit more cover if they have been lacking,

[Broomcroft]

I wouldn't push a Dexter or any native breed; you'll just be piling on fat. Steady as she goes. I'd certainly give them something to keeping them moving forwards over the winter months though, but not actually pushing them. We use fodder beet, occasionally some hard feed. From mid-summer to late autumn, if you can't finish on grass only, then there's something wrong with your grass, and personally I'd do a reseed.

[littleacre]

thanks for the comments. im certainly not affraid to feed . we made our own hay this year 750 bales and ive got 50 big bales of silage with plenty of straw as i need it. we recently sent in 2 steers 1 was just short of 30 months and the other 26 months the weights came back of carcases of 218 and 202kg and reading everything i can seem pretty spot on . i think the comment steady as she gos is what i like doing. i really dont want to send in small underweight animals because with the slaughter and butcher costs and hanging the meat it will result in a loss of money. likewise i think if there sent in too soon the meat to bone ratio is incorrect ,i know exactly wot people mean when they say that some dexters are skinny runty things but im affraid my view on this is breeding and the calves not getting a good start in life. likewise a poor qaulity mum will not and cannot give you a good qaulity calf . .

[Broomcroft]

I don't know what other people do but we don't actually "finish" our cattle at all. They come off their dams at 9-11 months, go straight onto good grazing, forage, a bit of feed if weaned at less than 8 months, and they stay on that regime till they are slaughtered.

There is nothing we do towards the end that is any different. That applies to both our Dexters and Angus-Dexters, neither need anything.

Does anyone else do an actual finishing process?

[littleacre]

clive thats exactly what i do and have done but now this gentleman seems to be pushing me in a different direction. i do the same as you , i do feed a bit more in winter if its very bad. we do bring ours in for the winter. but generally its just hay or silage that is given. this freind of mine is saying that because we can get feed potatoes cheap and barley and bread from the local bakery we should wind that in to them. instead of paying a fortune out in hay and silage. i say the term wind because thats exactly what he said. i chose dexters as my breed because A the size of them suited me B i like the idea of working with a rare breed C because the meat was fantastic. if i listen to people trying to push theese little cows through a finishing process to me that makes them become commercial and for me that isnt what my cattle are.making them commercial will only result in cattle getting bigger and bigger and the trend could be to keep them soley for proffit. dont get me wrong its nice to make money but if im going to go down that route then surely i would have chosen a bigger quicker finishing breed. im going to stick at it the natural way i think . you cross your angus to dexters dont you ? any problems with that ?? any difference in the meat ?? and what about temprement of the cattle any difference ??

[Colin]

My approach is similar to Clive's. I wean at around 9 months and they are fed on grass and, during the winter, our home grown haylage. I usually slaughter steers between 26 and 29 months and don't do anything different for finishing. I've had some really good weights (averaged 223 kg dead weight for last 6 steers) and have had great feedback on the taste of the beef from customers.

One of the advantages of dexters is that they don't need a lot of fancy feed to finish, which helps keeps the costs down.

Regards,

Colin

[Broomcroft]

you cross your angus to dexters dont you ? any problems with that ?? any difference in the meat ?? and what about temprement of the cattle any difference ??

I've only been doing it for a couple of years (about 60 cross calves). Some, maybe most are born bigger (say 25% ?) but they are a completely different shape. The head is no problem, being polled I suppose, but they have more back muscle, backend, and bigger legs/feet. But quite a lot of calves are very little different size-wise when born.

I only put bigger cows to the Angus, never heifers or anything too small obviously, and never a shortie (did it once by mistake and got a freaky calf).

We get a lot more growth which you'd expect, and they usually turn out to be very chunky. They look a bit like old-style Anguses, more body, short'ish legs, quite a small head compared to the body.

Temperament-wise, my particular bull is very quiet and has passed this on to all his calves, except one, who, I am extremely pleased to say, is going to the abattoir tomorrow, that's if I can get her on the trailer .

When they go the abattoir, they are not that much bigger than say a 27-29 month old Dexter, but they will go at 20-22 months so I save a whole winter basically and get hopefully a slightly higher grading carcass.

[littleacre]

im glad so many of your replys give me the impression of grass is good and as close to 30months as poss. like i said we sent 2 in and they graded at 218kg o+4h and a 202kgo+4l so i was happy with that.

[Rob R]

im glad so many of your replys give me the impression of grass is good and as close to 30months as poss. like i said we sent 2 in and they graded at 218kg o+4h and a 202kgo+4l so i was happy with that.

When I first started with Dexters I gave them hard feed in addition to winter hay and then grazed throughout summer. I found the meat more variable that way and certainly not as good as grassfed.

Pushing them with concentrates was certainly a good thing for many producers when grain was heavily subsidised and cheap, but with rising costs all round my biggest concern would be how much is he taking from the margin on your meat. It's important to get them off as early as possible when you are giving them hard feed and better, even, to get them away earlier when just on grass, but not to the extent of extra feeding which isn't as cheap as grazed grass. I've since found that the biggest influence on carcass size is genetic and any amount of extra feeding won't make a small framed Dexter bigger.

I usually finish straight off autumn grass at 30m for the LL & perhaps just after 24m on spring grass for the SL, although I don't do anything different for finishing, other than making sure they're on good, fresh grass. Extending the grazing season certainly helps in this respect. We're in the process of replacing our old cattle housing to make sorting and weighing cattle a lot easier, and then I'm going to start recording weights a lot more regularly.

[Mark Bowles]

Stick with it littleacre, your idea is fine and don't get rushed by your friend. Wean at 9/11 months from a quality cow with good confirmation and GOOD UDDER to provide milk for the whole 9/10 months. Thats the best start you can get. Feed quality grass and haylage, make sure there is always enough in front of them, the last thing you want is for them to go backwards at any stage. I am led to believe that puts a grissle type layer down in the meat, i may be wrong. Kill when they are finished, not to dates to suit you if you want the best product and make sure you don't go over otherwise you just lay down fat and that costs.
Jac, you have a valid point, the description of thrifty suits those that just want to be tight on feeding with the obvious poor results.