Welcome John0,
We have a currently small dexter herd (14) of black and two dun girls in Northern NSW Australia.
We've just moved onto our new property so a lot of fencing and sorting has been happening.
Our goal is to keep the true dual purposeness of the dexter to sell some of our cows as house cows and of course steers as meat and in our freezer.
All our herd are chrondo free but sadly we have three PHA girls which we plan to keep for live. Our method of eradicating the gene from our herd is each bull calf goes to the freezer from them and each heifer is tested carriers go to the freezer and of course non carriers (we have one from a carrier) will stay with the herd or be sold as a milker.
:D
Vicki
Semen for Holland - information about hight of AI bulls
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Louisa Gidney
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:00 am
- Contact:
Slightly off topic, but having made recent progress with analysing the skeletons of Dexter males I have come to the conclusion that I will never, ever, use a short-leg bull again, no matter how handsome or well bred.
The anomalies in the joint surfaces are far more pronounced in the short-leg males, and I have never encountered such high frequencies in archaeological cattle bones. Conversely, the bones of the short leg females are not strikingly distinguishable from small archaeological cow bones.
Google osteochondritis dissecans to get an idea of what I'm seeing on the joint surfaces. There's also a lot of incipient spavin among the 1-2 year olds, both short and non-short.
In another 10 years or so, I'm coming to terms with the fact that I will not be able to cope with my non-short cows, in terms of feed and water consumption and mucking out. I envisage a herd of short females with a non short bull in my declining years.
The anomalies in the joint surfaces are far more pronounced in the short-leg males, and I have never encountered such high frequencies in archaeological cattle bones. Conversely, the bones of the short leg females are not strikingly distinguishable from small archaeological cow bones.
Google osteochondritis dissecans to get an idea of what I'm seeing on the joint surfaces. There's also a lot of incipient spavin among the 1-2 year olds, both short and non-short.
In another 10 years or so, I'm coming to terms with the fact that I will not be able to cope with my non-short cows, in terms of feed and water consumption and mucking out. I envisage a herd of short females with a non short bull in my declining years.
Zanfara Dexters
Tow Law
Co. Durham
Tow Law
Co. Durham
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
Hello John,
As the others say, welcome to the discussion board, I hope you enjoy taking part in the discussions. For some reason I do find it much easier to have a debate when I know the identity of the other party, and I did think JohnO was liable to be yourself but dangerous to make assumptions. I believe you were at the AGM in Kent, and I would like to have met you but sadly by the time I knew you were there you had already gone. It is difficult on a day like that to get speaking to everyone.
If everyone breeding only non-chondro carriers was aiming at the heights you suggest, I would be a very happy man, I don't think we are all that far apart on that score.
Breed standards are difficult for any breed or any species come to that, eg Jack Russell Terriers had great bother agreeing on a breed description because of variation in size.
Having produced one range of sizes for both carrier and non carrier animals is tricky, because if the largest carries animals are then used to produce non-carriers, then these may be above the upper limit. We also have pressure from those producing beef in quantity to go for larger and larger animals, and if we select from the modern population, which include a small amount of introgression from larger breeds, then we will inadvertently be selecting for the breeds used in the grading up and so lose some of the breed character as well as increase the size. The original breed standard may well date from a time when long legged calves would just not be registered, or at least very few would. When I suggest that there may have been a time before the carrier type became so popular that there would be small non carriers, I am not looking to 1959, more like 1859, and of course there is little recorded from then and my opinion is just that, it may be wrong.
With the complication of carrier/noncarrier animals and one standard, combined with sex variation and suggested weights, there are some very difficult equations to balance and maybe the balance has not always been right. One of my concerns about the current UK breed standard is that at some point during the last decade this was altered, when we had agreed with Dexter Societies from around the world on what this should be at the first World Congress.
Some evidence which was not avialable to Prof Curran was presented at the first World Congress by Andrew Sheppy, when he gave us accurate figures for short to short matings. Hitherto this had usually been done by looking through the herd book, or by looking at small numbers which did not produce statistically valid results. But Andrew got breeding records for a large number of known short to short matings and the percentage of bulldogs was almost exactly the 25% as predicted by the single gene theory. the second big jump in evidence was the identification of that single gene by the Australians.
I'll need to go and do some work now or the staff will complain,
Duncan
As the others say, welcome to the discussion board, I hope you enjoy taking part in the discussions. For some reason I do find it much easier to have a debate when I know the identity of the other party, and I did think JohnO was liable to be yourself but dangerous to make assumptions. I believe you were at the AGM in Kent, and I would like to have met you but sadly by the time I knew you were there you had already gone. It is difficult on a day like that to get speaking to everyone.
If everyone breeding only non-chondro carriers was aiming at the heights you suggest, I would be a very happy man, I don't think we are all that far apart on that score.
Breed standards are difficult for any breed or any species come to that, eg Jack Russell Terriers had great bother agreeing on a breed description because of variation in size.
Having produced one range of sizes for both carrier and non carrier animals is tricky, because if the largest carries animals are then used to produce non-carriers, then these may be above the upper limit. We also have pressure from those producing beef in quantity to go for larger and larger animals, and if we select from the modern population, which include a small amount of introgression from larger breeds, then we will inadvertently be selecting for the breeds used in the grading up and so lose some of the breed character as well as increase the size. The original breed standard may well date from a time when long legged calves would just not be registered, or at least very few would. When I suggest that there may have been a time before the carrier type became so popular that there would be small non carriers, I am not looking to 1959, more like 1859, and of course there is little recorded from then and my opinion is just that, it may be wrong.
With the complication of carrier/noncarrier animals and one standard, combined with sex variation and suggested weights, there are some very difficult equations to balance and maybe the balance has not always been right. One of my concerns about the current UK breed standard is that at some point during the last decade this was altered, when we had agreed with Dexter Societies from around the world on what this should be at the first World Congress.
Some evidence which was not avialable to Prof Curran was presented at the first World Congress by Andrew Sheppy, when he gave us accurate figures for short to short matings. Hitherto this had usually been done by looking through the herd book, or by looking at small numbers which did not produce statistically valid results. But Andrew got breeding records for a large number of known short to short matings and the percentage of bulldogs was almost exactly the 25% as predicted by the single gene theory. the second big jump in evidence was the identification of that single gene by the Australians.
I'll need to go and do some work now or the staff will complain,
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Thank you all for the welcome.
Vicki regarding PHA no information has been diseminated by the society. For those not familiar with PHA there is a thread titled 'PHA' on this board. Duncan, as a member of the genetics comitte, will you please provide an update? I am not asking for snide letters or water cooler gossip but established facts.
Firstly have the AI bulls controlled by the society been tested?
Secondly has a list of animals related to Woodmagic Wheatear been compiled and will such a list be made available to allow breeders to decide about testing?
Third what testing options are available, USA, Australia, Europe...?
Vicki regarding PHA no information has been diseminated by the society. For those not familiar with PHA there is a thread titled 'PHA' on this board. Duncan, as a member of the genetics comitte, will you please provide an update? I am not asking for snide letters or water cooler gossip but established facts.
Firstly have the AI bulls controlled by the society been tested?
Secondly has a list of animals related to Woodmagic Wheatear been compiled and will such a list be made available to allow breeders to decide about testing?
Third what testing options are available, USA, Australia, Europe...?
John O'Neill
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
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Louisa Gidney
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:00 am
- Contact:
Broomcroft, I would agree that you need to know the size of the non-short masked by the carrier. However, it is quite possible for carriers to have perfectly respectable nonshort offspring. In the case of my own herd, my senior non short sire, with a short dam, is c.112cm hip height, comparable to his sire and grandsire. This is not mentioned as often as the other scenario.
JohnO, there was a presentation at the 2009 AGM by Duncan & Andrew about PHA, so DCS is aware and is disseminating info.
JohnO, there was a presentation at the 2009 AGM by Duncan & Andrew about PHA, so DCS is aware and is disseminating info.
Zanfara Dexters
Tow Law
Co. Durham
Tow Law
Co. Durham
-
Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
- Contact:
Off subject again, sorry, but with regard to the difference in height, I have two cows that are just about identical twins, although they are actually half sisters. They produce exactly the same calves, same look same size, height etc, each year and often calve within a day or two of each other. They are getting on a bit now and I will take them to be culled together.
Anyhow, a couple of years ago, one had a shortie and one a non-short and I got a shot from behind at something like 6 months of age......
Yes, Louisa, I had a shortie cow from a good line, so I bred from her, only got steers in my case though.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1298399575
Anyhow, a couple of years ago, one had a shortie and one a non-short and I got a shot from behind at something like 6 months of age......
Yes, Louisa, I had a shortie cow from a good line, so I bred from her, only got steers in my case though.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1298399575
Clive
Hi John0,
The AI bulls have all been tested in Australia and we can DNA at the same lab as we do for Chrondo and PV at cost negotiated by our DCAI and the QLD University Lab. It's quite reasonable, IMO.
We have quite a few descendent's from Trillium Chabotte in Australia and in the 'group' there was a carrier bull, so approx 45 animals are registered directly with him the sire, which is not great. Our three come further down the line from that bull.
A cow of course doesn't have the capacity to infect so many so quickly... but unfortunately there are always those who would put their heads in the sand and continue on without testing and controlling and sell the progeny to unknowing people, which is one reason we decided to keep our carriers.
We really don't want to perpetuate yet another lethal gene and this one is well hidden, as the animals are often beautiful looking.
Vicki
The AI bulls have all been tested in Australia and we can DNA at the same lab as we do for Chrondo and PV at cost negotiated by our DCAI and the QLD University Lab. It's quite reasonable, IMO.
We have quite a few descendent's from Trillium Chabotte in Australia and in the 'group' there was a carrier bull, so approx 45 animals are registered directly with him the sire, which is not great. Our three come further down the line from that bull.
A cow of course doesn't have the capacity to infect so many so quickly... but unfortunately there are always those who would put their heads in the sand and continue on without testing and controlling and sell the progeny to unknowing people, which is one reason we decided to keep our carriers.
We really don't want to perpetuate yet another lethal gene and this one is well hidden, as the animals are often beautiful looking.
Vicki
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
When I post on this site I am speaking as an individual, not as a member of Council of DCS or the Genetics Sub-committee.
If anyone has any concerns about the speed of progress on this issue please write or email the DCS office and this will be passed to the relevant group.
I have been concerned as an individual since I first read about PHA on the internet years ago, but I am also very concerned that we do not unnecessarily alarm people or worse still creat any sort of a "withc hunt" atmosphere amongst DCS members. If anyone has not seen the copy of the article in the Bulletin some time ago I can send it as an email attachment. DCS council meets on 14th March and will be receiving a report from the Genetics sub-comittee.
Please do remember that this site is not an official forum for communication with DCS and it can be difficult for those officially involved with DCS matters to say exactly what they think when working with others in comittee.
It is also best to start a new thread for new subjects, maybe I should have opened a new topic for this reply!
Duncan
If anyone has any concerns about the speed of progress on this issue please write or email the DCS office and this will be passed to the relevant group.
I have been concerned as an individual since I first read about PHA on the internet years ago, but I am also very concerned that we do not unnecessarily alarm people or worse still creat any sort of a "withc hunt" atmosphere amongst DCS members. If anyone has not seen the copy of the article in the Bulletin some time ago I can send it as an email attachment. DCS council meets on 14th March and will be receiving a report from the Genetics sub-comittee.
Please do remember that this site is not an official forum for communication with DCS and it can be difficult for those officially involved with DCS matters to say exactly what they think when working with others in comittee.
It is also best to start a new thread for new subjects, maybe I should have opened a new topic for this reply!
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
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PorcPrunus NL
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:47 pm
- Location: Holland
- Contact:
Duncan MacIntyre wrote:Hello John,
...... I believe you were at the AGM in Kent, and I would like to have met you but sadly by the time I knew you were there you had already gone. It is difficult on a day like that to get speaking to everyone..............
Duncan
I was lucky, I've spoken you both (Duncan and John) at the AGM.
It doesn't bother me people go off-topic in "my" topic. Sharing information is the most important issue, and everybody tries to do this his/her own way.
There are many types in the Dexter race, and everybody is free to choose.
Some like the short, some the non-short.
Some are aiming on meat, some on behavior, and another on milking. Or breeding for a perfect show-Dexter.
Our aim is a small non-short with a calm temperament. Important are the vital functions to get old. Good feet (movement) and an elastic udder.
The type must be a dual purposal type. Not to milky, not to much meat. But most important not to tall!
In my opinion there is to little information about the AI bulls. Maybe due to the small population with much breeding with stock bulls and less with AI. So there is not much progeny from the AI bulls.
But all the information there is is welcome!
Edited By PorcPrunus NL on 1298489525
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
The lack of figures for AI bulls in the past is probably the result of the way the Dexter breed has grown from a very very narrow base in the mid/late 1970's.
I joined the society and bought my first heifer in 1986, and by 1989 felt ready to take on a young bull rather than use AI. I went to the RBST sale at Stoneleigh with North Ronaldsay ewe lambs to sell, and thought if I saw a yearling bull which was about old enough to serve a cow or two that might suit. There were none quite as young as I had thought, but had my eye on a young bull from Rosemary Brown, who looked young enough to be easy to handle, and small enough to go in my small trailer. As I sat at the auction Ilsington Bramble, much more mature at 2.5yrs old, came into the ring, he had been the best bull there and carried all the rosettes. The bidding stuck at 380gns, with John Thornborrow loath to sell him as cheap there was a slight delay during which my arm was forceably raised by the person by my side, who assured me I would never get a better on cheaper. So I got him on one bid, at 400gns. The problem then was explaining to Linda when I got home that the bull in the trailer was a mature boy and not a calf as I had hinted I might buy. So Ilsington Bramble came to Scotland. Within a month or two I had two DCS council members phone me as assure me I had bought a really good bull, and would I consider putting him on AI for the Society. In these days the demand for Dexter semen was tiny compared to now and almost none were available other than through the society. Bing a member of fairly short duration at that time I was of course flattered and thought, being a public spirited sort, that it would be the thing to do. I did wonder, since several prominent members had been at the sale, why they were prepared to see him sell to a butcher at 380. So he went on AI. The system was that the collection and attendant testing costs would be paid by the society, the semen was donated, and the bull went back to the owner. I did find out later that I would be paid 50p per straw sold, and for a year or two got a small cheque, I think the largest was about £60. Then suddenly that stopped and to this day I have had no explanation of why.
Do not be mistaken, he was a very well shaped bull, possibly a bit large as a short leg, and when he cam home from AI collection centre weighed in at 552kg. But that is all there was to putting him on AI - no-one from the Society checked him at any stage after I had purchased him, though he would be subject to the usual inspection before the sale. I tell the story not to blame anyone for the way it was done, but just to tell how things happened in the past, which newer members may not realise. At that time there were far fewer large herds, most were very small, and it would have been difficult to come up with many facts and figures which would be expected in more mainstream breeds. We should be compiling much more data about all our calves, then we would be able to make comparisons. Even today this is very difficult.
Duncan
I joined the society and bought my first heifer in 1986, and by 1989 felt ready to take on a young bull rather than use AI. I went to the RBST sale at Stoneleigh with North Ronaldsay ewe lambs to sell, and thought if I saw a yearling bull which was about old enough to serve a cow or two that might suit. There were none quite as young as I had thought, but had my eye on a young bull from Rosemary Brown, who looked young enough to be easy to handle, and small enough to go in my small trailer. As I sat at the auction Ilsington Bramble, much more mature at 2.5yrs old, came into the ring, he had been the best bull there and carried all the rosettes. The bidding stuck at 380gns, with John Thornborrow loath to sell him as cheap there was a slight delay during which my arm was forceably raised by the person by my side, who assured me I would never get a better on cheaper. So I got him on one bid, at 400gns. The problem then was explaining to Linda when I got home that the bull in the trailer was a mature boy and not a calf as I had hinted I might buy. So Ilsington Bramble came to Scotland. Within a month or two I had two DCS council members phone me as assure me I had bought a really good bull, and would I consider putting him on AI for the Society. In these days the demand for Dexter semen was tiny compared to now and almost none were available other than through the society. Bing a member of fairly short duration at that time I was of course flattered and thought, being a public spirited sort, that it would be the thing to do. I did wonder, since several prominent members had been at the sale, why they were prepared to see him sell to a butcher at 380. So he went on AI. The system was that the collection and attendant testing costs would be paid by the society, the semen was donated, and the bull went back to the owner. I did find out later that I would be paid 50p per straw sold, and for a year or two got a small cheque, I think the largest was about £60. Then suddenly that stopped and to this day I have had no explanation of why.
Do not be mistaken, he was a very well shaped bull, possibly a bit large as a short leg, and when he cam home from AI collection centre weighed in at 552kg. But that is all there was to putting him on AI - no-one from the Society checked him at any stage after I had purchased him, though he would be subject to the usual inspection before the sale. I tell the story not to blame anyone for the way it was done, but just to tell how things happened in the past, which newer members may not realise. At that time there were far fewer large herds, most were very small, and it would have been difficult to come up with many facts and figures which would be expected in more mainstream breeds. We should be compiling much more data about all our calves, then we would be able to make comparisons. Even today this is very difficult.
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Hi Porc Prunus NL ,
If you really want to achieve the results you suggest then try and persuade Mike Sinnott to put Steepmarsh Ghengis up for AI and perhaps elite DCS status. The only objection I have to him is that he is Dun . He is short legged but not a carrier of Chondro.. or PHA (I think) or indeed any genetic defects.
When I last saw him he looked as short as Ilsington Bramble M2390 (see picture in 1990 herd book) a known chrondo carrier. I measured Ghengis as 43"at the hip. His Dam is a small non short black cow that Mike produced by breeding back to the Woodmagic 'Z' lines, well thats what Mike calls stock descended from WM Roebuck who was a descendant of Atlantic Zepher 2nd via Exeter Zepher. Sorry if my notes are not perfect but when you meet Mike and talk with him it is hard to keep up and make notes. Ghengis was sired by Steepmarsh Andrew, a Red chondro carrier bull. At maturity he is 42" at the rump in summer (fat) condition . Andrew was named in honor of Andrew Sheppy who's talk to a Dexter group years ago sparked Mikes interest in the History of the Dexter and cattle generally. Mike says Ghengis was the result of a match of WM Roebuck's genetics from his Sire and Dam . You can see a picture of Roebuck as a young bull in the DCS Herdbook 1987. Ghengis has a longer back and is bigger. Ghengis has the kindest eye I have ever seen in a Dexter bull and his offspring are easy to handle and train . His Dams udder is perfect and soft. I saw her when she was at 11 years old, she is ebony black tip to tail top to bottom. Ghengis is self dun ( Dark ) and likely recessive red but all his calves so far, I think, are black.
Ghengis has perfect feet and they have never been trimmed, what a saving in time.
My first introduction to Dexter genetics was Mike explaining the chondro gene, he printed off a research paper on the first day I met him, seems the real work was done in Australia !
My second lesson was Mike explaining how a Black cow and Red bull could have a Dun calf. He gave me an American! research paper on the colour dun in Dexters and referred me to the notes of a Canadian ! on the history of the Dun colour. He also gave his theory and said not to say much about it until he had detailed evidence which I understand is piling up !
Mike also has a very promising Black Bull called Ifor again short for a non carrier and very long backed just like old pictures of Dexters and Kerry's
Duncan mentioned Rosemary. I put a picture of her with an article about my herd start up in the Bulletin of spring 2009, the same edition in which Louisa Gidney's article on bones is published. Mike has a little cow that looks like Rosemary and Iresine another original Dexter. She is 36" at the hip but a carrier of chondro, one of her Grand dams Blackberry was only 35" at the hip. I saw her when 14 years old, she walked perfectly and had no joint problems. Mike said her calves weighed over 20 kilo's which ever bull he used and she never needed any assistance in calving. He frequently put an extra calf on her.
I hope Mike will not mind me mentioning what he calls the "odd ones". He had the smallest dexter cow I have ever seen, 34" at the hip, called Dainty . She was classified by Mike as a " Pygmy " and he explained she was a dwarf ( ie Chondro) of his Z line ( ie Woodmagic Roebuck descendant) . Amazingly apart from being very small and short she was perfect even her udder was well off the ground in full milk. Mike said he was careful what bull he used on her and that she would be culled from the herd when his numbers got to high for the land he has and that he wouldn't sell her.
As to giraffes when I managed to persuade Mike to sell me some cows the ones I got were mainly the tall ones but none was over 43" at the hip . Mike was kind enough to advise me on sires that would bring the height of offspring down without using a carrier bull . The two he helped me choose are helping achieve this . I am also using Cornahir cows to bring the herd height down. The bulls are Sollershope Gromit M4700 ( Heavily influenced by Templeton Michaelmas Squeak) and
Bromore Valenteno Rossi M5612 ( Moomin X Cornahir).
I feel very lucky to have had Mike's help although I think he will help anyone that wants to learn about Dexters. He tells me he has had some good mentors to help him along .
If you really want to achieve the results you suggest then try and persuade Mike Sinnott to put Steepmarsh Ghengis up for AI and perhaps elite DCS status. The only objection I have to him is that he is Dun . He is short legged but not a carrier of Chondro.. or PHA (I think) or indeed any genetic defects.
When I last saw him he looked as short as Ilsington Bramble M2390 (see picture in 1990 herd book) a known chrondo carrier. I measured Ghengis as 43"at the hip. His Dam is a small non short black cow that Mike produced by breeding back to the Woodmagic 'Z' lines, well thats what Mike calls stock descended from WM Roebuck who was a descendant of Atlantic Zepher 2nd via Exeter Zepher. Sorry if my notes are not perfect but when you meet Mike and talk with him it is hard to keep up and make notes. Ghengis was sired by Steepmarsh Andrew, a Red chondro carrier bull. At maturity he is 42" at the rump in summer (fat) condition . Andrew was named in honor of Andrew Sheppy who's talk to a Dexter group years ago sparked Mikes interest in the History of the Dexter and cattle generally. Mike says Ghengis was the result of a match of WM Roebuck's genetics from his Sire and Dam . You can see a picture of Roebuck as a young bull in the DCS Herdbook 1987. Ghengis has a longer back and is bigger. Ghengis has the kindest eye I have ever seen in a Dexter bull and his offspring are easy to handle and train . His Dams udder is perfect and soft. I saw her when she was at 11 years old, she is ebony black tip to tail top to bottom. Ghengis is self dun ( Dark ) and likely recessive red but all his calves so far, I think, are black.
Ghengis has perfect feet and they have never been trimmed, what a saving in time.
My first introduction to Dexter genetics was Mike explaining the chondro gene, he printed off a research paper on the first day I met him, seems the real work was done in Australia !
My second lesson was Mike explaining how a Black cow and Red bull could have a Dun calf. He gave me an American! research paper on the colour dun in Dexters and referred me to the notes of a Canadian ! on the history of the Dun colour. He also gave his theory and said not to say much about it until he had detailed evidence which I understand is piling up !
Mike also has a very promising Black Bull called Ifor again short for a non carrier and very long backed just like old pictures of Dexters and Kerry's
Duncan mentioned Rosemary. I put a picture of her with an article about my herd start up in the Bulletin of spring 2009, the same edition in which Louisa Gidney's article on bones is published. Mike has a little cow that looks like Rosemary and Iresine another original Dexter. She is 36" at the hip but a carrier of chondro, one of her Grand dams Blackberry was only 35" at the hip. I saw her when 14 years old, she walked perfectly and had no joint problems. Mike said her calves weighed over 20 kilo's which ever bull he used and she never needed any assistance in calving. He frequently put an extra calf on her.
I hope Mike will not mind me mentioning what he calls the "odd ones". He had the smallest dexter cow I have ever seen, 34" at the hip, called Dainty . She was classified by Mike as a " Pygmy " and he explained she was a dwarf ( ie Chondro) of his Z line ( ie Woodmagic Roebuck descendant) . Amazingly apart from being very small and short she was perfect even her udder was well off the ground in full milk. Mike said he was careful what bull he used on her and that she would be culled from the herd when his numbers got to high for the land he has and that he wouldn't sell her.
As to giraffes when I managed to persuade Mike to sell me some cows the ones I got were mainly the tall ones but none was over 43" at the hip . Mike was kind enough to advise me on sires that would bring the height of offspring down without using a carrier bull . The two he helped me choose are helping achieve this . I am also using Cornahir cows to bring the herd height down. The bulls are Sollershope Gromit M4700 ( Heavily influenced by Templeton Michaelmas Squeak) and
Bromore Valenteno Rossi M5612 ( Moomin X Cornahir).
I feel very lucky to have had Mike's help although I think he will help anyone that wants to learn about Dexters. He tells me he has had some good mentors to help him along .
John O'Neill
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
-
PorcPrunus NL
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:47 pm
- Location: Holland
- Contact:
The avantage from speaking Englisch is that most of the people speak it, so you don't have to manage another language. For German the same.Liz D wrote:Nico you gave us a link to the Swiss site but unfortunately I don't read or speak GermanWhere is the link about AI bulls on their site? A Swiss dairy farmer and friend was telling me about Dexters in Switzerland and I would love to have him look at it with me. Thanks, Liz
We Dutch people have a problem. Only Belgium, Suriname and South africa will understand our language. So we learn Englisch, German, and even Frans Spanish or wathever. That's our advantage.
We were in England in the AGM week 2010 with a couple of German members. We oft did the translations from Englisch to German. Funny, but after a week you become a sort of scitsofreen. Only talking 2 not-mother languages, skipping from one to the other. I was talking german to Englisch people and otherwise.
This is what i can translate for you from the site of Peter Falk: When german-speaking people want more information i can talk to them. I make the switch. Let them mail to Nico@deversekers.nl
ZUCHT STIERE (breeding bulls)
http://www.kapf-sg.ch/index.p....emid=63
KB-Zuchtstiere (translation AI bulls)
http://www.kapf-sg.ch/index.p....mid=115
KB-Zuchtstiere in Abkärung (Peter Falk tries to import semen from these bulls