Semen for Holland - information about hight of AI bulls

PorcPrunus NL · Post by **PorcPrunus NL** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:29 pm

We want to import semen from the UK.

At this moment the following bulls are available, but from most of these bulls wouldn't come new semen overseas anymore.

- Moomin Posh
- Moomin Jupiter
- Brambledel Redberry Prince
- Cobthorne Dannyboy
- Butterbox Morris

In Holland the Dexter-farmers are small-holders. They have mostly 2 or 3 cows. The biggest farmer has 12 breeding cows.
For us slaughter weights are not an issue. People in Holland want to breed Dexters as small as possible. They prefer short legged animals above long legged.

My question:
Which from the 5 bulls from above will give us the smallest cows?
Are there new bulls available which can decrease the hight measurement of our Dexters?

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:39 pm

Do you know about the results of breeding a short-leg to a short-leg?

PorcPrunus NL · Post by **PorcPrunus NL** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:46 pm

Broomcroft wrote:Do you know about the results of breeding a short-leg to a short-leg?

Of course we know.

We use short-leg bulls on our non-shorts cows
and non-short bulls (mostly tested) on our short cows.

In holland there are to many long-legged cows taller than 43 inch.

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:04 pm

Breeding short to non-short, or at least the involvement of shorts, masks what you are breeding. Our tallest animals have come from tiny shorties. Have you thought of breeding non-short to non-short but just selecting for real/genetic shortness, then what you see is what you get and you get 100% instead of 50/50? Just a thought. Don't know if any of those bulls fit into that category.

Brambledel Redberry Prince is non-short and BIG. We had him here for a couple of days.

Edited By Broomcroft on 1296756283

Anna · Post by **Anna** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:39 pm

All these boys are non carriers I think.

The information on UK semen bulls are often zero. I have found this very frustrating and annoying when searching for suitable semen to import. It doesn´t make sense to spend hundreds of £ on semen from a bull you know nothing about. Noting about offspring, height, fertility, mothers and daughters milking ability etc.

PorcPrunus NL · Post by **PorcPrunus NL** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:30 pm

Broomcroft wrote:Breeding short to non-short, or at least the involvement of shorts, masks what you are breeding. Our tallest animals have come from tiny shorties. Have you thought of breeding non-short to non-short but just selecting for real/genetic shortness, then what you see is what you get and you get 100% instead of 50/50? Just a thought. Don't know if any of those bulls fit into that category.

Brambledel Redberry Prince is non-short and BIG. We had him here for a couple of days.

at our own farm we want to breed non-short to non-short. We only use non-carriers (tested).

When we buy a bull we can see how tall he is (and his mother!).
With AI we don't have that opportunity.

That's why this question:
Which non-short AI bull is selected for real/genetic shortness ?

I understand Redberry Prince is not.

Post by **Mark Bowles** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:34 pm

I am willing to make a comment and get shot down. I would have thought the Moomin bulls would give slightly smaller offspring.
Prince was the higher end of the scale, i have only seen Dannyboy once and he was average height plus i think, Morris i have never seen nor many of his daughters.
I have Moomin in my bloodlines and although the offspring are not huge they are not excessively small either.
You dont have a lot of choice, it may be down to the size of your cows.
Could you import some smaller cows? Ther are several breeders over here that breed smaller non-shorts.

PorcPrunus NL · Post by **PorcPrunus NL** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:55 am

Mark Bowles wrote:I am willing to make a comment and get shot down. I would have thought the Moomin bulls would give slightly smaller offspring.
Prince was the higher end of the scale, i have only seen Dannyboy once and he was average height plus i think, Morris i have never seen nor many of his daughters.
I have Moomin in my bloodlines and although the offspring are not huge they are not excessively small either.
You dont have a lot of choice, it may be down to the size of your cows.
Could you import some smaller cows? Ther are several breeders over here that breed smaller non-shorts.

Thanks for the information about these bulls.

We think semen import will bring us quicker to our goal.

There are enough small Dexter cows in Holland. Even small non-shorts.
The problem is: we don't want the next generation to be bigger than the mothers.

DCS has enlarge the breeding standard with 2 inches (when and why did that happen?). The members from Holland Dexter would never be agree with that!

(This is not meant to attack someone from the DCS board)

Edited By PorcPrunus NL on 1296888999

moomin · Post by **moomin** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:31 pm

Elmwood Mackoy semen is available from Pat Short. I have had good small non-carriers from him with lovely kind temperaments. Very easy calving. He is interesting as he is an original population bull. His 'photos do not do him justice!

moomin · Post by **moomin** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:34 pm

P.S.
If you look on "YouTube Dexter AGM 2010", you will see one of my young bulls Moomin Maximillian by him.

Anna · Post by **Anna** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:58 pm

Moomin,
Thanks for info on Mackoy. I think it would be perfectly ok for you to brag a little about the Moomin bulls too. If you want to.

Can you share any information on milkiness of the daughters of Mackoy, Posh and Jupiter, and/or their dams? I would appreciate it sooo much.

Sorry for hijacking..

And thanks for the tip about the movie. Your herd looks lovely. Are they all non carriers?

Louisa Gidney · Post by **Louisa Gidney** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:13 pm

The Australians have some of the English bulls on AI and publish full data on height, scrotal circumference and lots of other useful info on all the bulls available on AI there. Worth a look to see family relationships with British bulls in terms of height etc.
If you go through the old posts to find a topic I started on Scrotal Circumference, one of the Australian contributors kindly posted a link to this information.

Anna · Post by **Anna** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:48 pm

Thanks Louisa!
Here is the link:
http://abri.une.edu.au/online....C2B3C3A

(I found Posh, Redberry Prince and Danny Boy in the list.)

Denise · Post by **Denise** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:11 pm

Anna that was what I was about to suggest - look up our Australian bulls on the AI list, and you will find -
they are all tested for chodro
they are all tested for PHA
their scores and measurements are available

Hope its of help

Anna · Post by **Anna** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:09 am

Denise, I appreciate the work done in Australia. You have Danish AI bulls who is said not to have been chondro tested and for that reason are banned from import to Sweden. I guess the tests have been made down under, on straws. Obviously things are in better order in Australia than in UK, and Denmark

Well if anyone have milked a daughter from any of the UK AI bulls, or any of the Danish bulls offered in Australia, information on milkiness and milk quality would be priceless for me. Please send a PM and make me happy.

A bull with a milky mother and milky daughters will not guarante me a good heifer, but at least the odds will be better.

I still cannot understand why UK semen firms don´t collect and display info about the bulls they offer. Do buyers only care about pedigree and looks?