Viral Papilloma - Warts - Bad ones!

Tim Watson · Post by **Tim Watson** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:42 pm

Feeling very bad about this!

When we got the Dexters from Beryl in February, the older one had some warts which spread pretty quickly. Nothing too serious - just unsightly. We researched and were told that all would be well and given time they would disappear of their own accord - which they have done, mostly.

The younger one had no warts but given their proximity I expected her to get some but that they would fall into the same process of 'give them time and they will disappear'.

About the time of our TB test in May I thought that the younger one had a supernumary teat so got the vet to have a look while she was here. Her diagnosis was that it was a small wart and that it would disappear in time. I kept an eye on it and there seemed to be little growth.

They were due to go to the bull in the summer but we decided that they seemed a bit small so would leave them until next year.

Business called and I have worked abroad in 2 week chunks since August, (away for 2 back for 1) coming back a week ago to find a large warty mass hanging from her udder. Large as in 4-5" x 3" in diameter.

They are running with other cows from a local farmer and so have become harder to get close to for a good look so got them all in for the vet to look at her today.
Once in the crush it became clear that her whole udder is covered in warts whith the large warty mass hanging from the back half. We could only find one teat (which gave off a clear liquid) but could see what we thought was a teat in the middle of the warty mass. Vet diagnosed viral papilloma and what is far, far worse is that the middle of the mass is necrotic (the smell was terrible) so it is rotting from within.

She is now on three large doses of antibiotics two days apart to try to stop things getting worse and the rot spreading north as he says the next stage will be mastitis.

She seems well enough in herself and they are both back in the little barn where they acclimatised when I first got them and are happy on fresh straw and lots of hay. Happy to have head scratches etc.

The outlook is fairly bleak according to the vet. Give her about 1-2 months to see if she improves and the warty mass drops off otherwise, as it is inoperable, we would have to make the big decision. He udder is so covered in warts that even if they ut off this mass he felt that another wart could grow rapidly to a similar state. I have asked about taking some of the wart and making the special injection but their opinion is that it is no better than 50/50 and they can come back very quickly as well.

I am very, very upset about this - one of Beryl's and I have let her down by not acting in time - thinking that it would come right. Pure total inexperience.

The vet says that her udder is unlikely to be able to suckle a calf. I guess if she got through this we could bottle feed her calf.

All the glib comments about livestock and deadstock don't count for much when you feel you have let them down - something I have never done for any animal before.

So to all of you who may be newer to cows than me (not that hard as we have only had them for eight months) and have waded through the story. DON'T WAIT - ACT.

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:02 pm

Hello Tim,

Don't beat yourself up about it, there was probably little that anyone could have done that would have prevented the warts growing so big anyway but I am so sorry to hear that she is so badly affected.

Stephanie

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:17 pm

I would repeat what Stephanie says, do not take the blame of this all on yourself. Warts happen, they are very widespread, and there are quite a number of different varieties. I suspect this is a different variety from the obvious ones you saw on the heifers when you got them. I took some of Beryl's heifers in September last year and there were warts there which have now disappeared. One of my own breeding but after contact with Beryl's developed a cauliflower like one on the middle of one side, it eventually went necrotic and fell off, no mark whatsover.

It is of course a little bit different on a teat, but even so I would not lose hope until you see the long term result. It may well be that there will be a viable teat in there which will survive, just wait and see - the powers of healing are amazing.

On the guilt side of feeling you should have acted sooner, there are very few licenced treatments left for warts, and fewer which have any real influence. The best bet used to be an autogenous vaccine, made from a sample of the wart for treatment of that one animal - quite expensive but well worth it for a valuable animal. This summer I was asked to look at a potential entry for the Scottish Winter Fair, a real good prospect to take a ticket at least if not be at the top of her class. I took a sample, and began enquiring about laboratories to make the vaccine. Lo and behold the VMD have stuck their sticky beak in and we need to have any vaccine prepared tested on at least 5 animals in case of any untoward reaction. Total madness. The heifer was not entered for the show, but when I saw her today the largest wart, which was on a lower eyelid, now is shrinking with a well marked border between it and the normal skin. She will be ok in a few weeks.

Do not feel guilty, Do not lose hope.

And if the worst comes to the worst and she cannot produce milk, her genes can easily be saved by hand feeding the calves as you say.

Beryl was a remarkably forgiving person, she would not be condemning you.

Duncan

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:17 pm

What else could you have done in those early stages? There are no treatments.

i bet everyone would have done the same, leave them and see. its all you can do.

the costs are too great to get a vet to every little thing. she will be fine in time i bet.

dominic

Minnie · Post by **Minnie** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:35 am

Hi Tim,

I'll chorus with the others, not to beat yourself up. We all do from time to time and I do it myself, so well understand how terrible you're feeling at the moment.

I've got a cow that has warts (quite a lot) on her face, I was getting concerned last year with the ones around her mouth and eyes.

She's always had a lot, the others had a few that went. But I noticed the other day they are going, I'm thinking it's the bore water we have here and the minerals in the water could be effecting them?

I hope she comes through okay, fingers and toes crossed.

Vicki

wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:04 am

Tim, waiting is the worst part. This has nothing to do with warts, just a lot to do with waiting

Last night from a distance I saw some jumping activity in a paddock where there shouldn't have been any. On closer inspection I find a heifer has a dirty retained placenta, 7 weeks before she is due to calve. So I brought her in, inserted a pessary and gave her a jab with long acting antibiotic. Then I went to search a large tussocky paddock for the evidence until I ran out of daylight, unsuccessfully of course.

Overnight I worried that the cervix should have been wider and softer. Today after vaginal and a rectal internal checks I'm none the wiser. Our '3/4 hour away' vet is away having a knee reconstruction. The next closest, our '2 hours away' vet is currently 2 hours away in the opposite direction, and can't fit this area into his schedule for another week!

So, ... all I can do is wait also. If she gets her appetite back in a day or so, then there's no calf in there. If she gets depressed and miserable, she will probably need an oxytocin.

Duncan, someone, please re-assure me that I'm doing the right thing. This is one of 3 females we have, probably one of only 3 or 4 in this country, with a particularly unique pedigree. I'd rather she didn't end up with damage to the inside of her uterus.
Margaret

Minnie · Post by **Minnie** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:05 am

Margaret it's one of the worst things at time living so far from a vet, I know now as my nearest is an hour.

I hope it all works out.

Vicki

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:02 am

Are they anything like this Tim?

Wart Topic

Tim Watson · Post by **Tim Watson** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:53 am

Firstly, thanks for all the kind words and reassurance and for those of you who have called to find how she is and provide more reasurance to me.

Well my problem sounds nothing like Margarets! At least I can see what is going on, there are more than 3-4 Woodmagic's in the country and my vet is about 10 minutes up the road unless I go and get him from his house which is at the end of the lane to the farm - 2 minutes!

Must have sounded like a whinging pom! :D

Clive, I'm getting her back in the crush for her second jab today. Will try to take a couple of photos.

wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:29 pm

I had phone calls back from both vets, north & south, so not feeling quite so remote and isolated now.

Tim, at first I wondered at your Australianism. I didn't think that for one moment! I had to chuckle when I remembered you had done some school years over here.

The most recent Woodmagic females, especially the herd current when Beryl died, are collectors items and every single one of them is precious. Fingers crossed.
Margaret

Tim Watson · Post by **Tim Watson** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:12 pm

Hope this doesn't put anyone off their supper!

You can see the necrotic part showing at the bottom. This extends up through the inside middle.

This one is in her left 'armpit' (what is a cows armpit called?)

Close up of one in her armpit.

Note wart hanging down in udder area. Some smaller warts visible around her nose but seem to be a different type not so 'cauliflower'.

This is the older one that used to be warty (nowhere near as bad) but has cleared up.

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:39 pm

Tim, I think I once said to you not to worry about warts, they would just disappear given time. Really sorry to have played it down, never seen anything like that except when sheep slough off a whole udder with mastitis. Amazing how they can walk about with a rotten udder hanging off by a thread, and they are still munching away! Hope it all turns out well but I can see why you aren't a happy bunny at the moment.

Regards

Edited By Broomcroft on 1288384839

wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:11 am

Tim, did the vet take a biopsy? One of ours proved to be different from the ordinary wart virus, but it did also look a bit different, which was why we had it tested.
She also had ordinary warts at the same time in the same area, eyebrows. Her different '-oma' looked more like the dark patches on your girls mass, or is that just the photo lighting that is doing that?
Poor little girl must be very uncomfortable. All the best to both of you.
Margaret

Edited By wagra dexters on 1288404915

Tim Watson · Post by **Tim Watson** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:05 am

No the vet didn't take a biopsy. Although we didn't discuss it I was left with the impression that they felt that cutting into them may either spread them or cause some of the mroe dormant one to come to life. I may have got the wrong end of the stick - I am sure Duncan can correct me - but there seemed to be a marked wariness about cutting into them.

They are different colours. The flare of the flash has made her udder ones appear to be a more uniform colour. In reality the colouring in real life is closer to the ones in her armpit.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:40 pm

Tim,

Suggest exploring this again with your vet so that you are very clear. If he thinks this is benign and not malignant, removal of at least some of the wart, such as in her armpit, may help stimulate ger immune system to take over. Might be more difficult and risky to do this on her udder. Also be worth discussing again the vaccine option. It's her immune system that is key to resolving this.

Other than that, do as you are doing and keep her well fed with plenty of TLC.

Regards,

Colin