TB Testing

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:32 pm

Just had a very difficult day. Our TB results today were a reactor and 2 IRs. All three are part of our core young breeding cows, due to give birth between now and Sept. As a new herd, we've had annual TB tests since 2007 when we first started with our 2 original heifers. We were in a 4 year area until end of 2009. Now we're in a 1 year area. All 3 cows have been with us for most of this time, one of the IRs is one of our original 2 heifers. Another IR is my best show cow. Depending on the postmortem of the reactor, the two IRs may also need to be slaughtered. The state vet said it was a 50:50 chance. I'm hoping for the best, but don't have a good feeling. I scouted our land and have found evidence of badger activity in an adjoining wood and recent activity in a corner of one of our fields. We also have a lot of deer.

Would welcome any other similar experiences and what can be done to reduce risk going forward.

Regards,

Colin

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:52 pm

Thats pretty shocking news. i cant imagine having to do that, it would go against everything i work for, to take part of my herd for meaningless slaughter.

according the badger trust, its your fault for lack of bio security and irresponsible cattle movement.

how many cows do you keep?

dont let it beat you

dom

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:14 pm

We've got 28 on total, of which we currently have 9 core breeding cows/heifers with others coming up to breeding age. Not a lot of cattle movement, as we've been focussing more on breeding our own. Our fencing is in very good condition with pig wire down to ground level. But I don't know what will keep badgers out, short of brick walls with deep foundations.

Regards,

Colin

Bridgehouse · Post by **Bridgehouse** » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:29 pm

Hi

Sorry to hear your news. I think we have been very lucky. We are in a two year testing area, and we have a badger set on our farm. However I am told if they are clean badgers then it is good news as they will deter others passing over the land. That is presuming badgers are to blame. I am not sure to what extent they mingle/join new groups.

One of the issues I regularly hear is that badgers do make use of the lick buckets put out for cows if at ground level.

There is a lot of sign of activity of badgers across the farm and if out at night across the farm it is not unusual to come across one.

Keep us informed of how you go on.
Mark

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:17 am

Hi Colin

Very sorry to hear that especially as they are due to calve. I spoke to a DEFRA TB Specialist a year or two ago and he said that it was their opinion that 85% of TB was spread by badgers, 10% cattle to cattle, and 5% unknown. We have loads of deer but he said they were not a problem because there was no contact I assume. This was his advice to me:

> avoid attracting badgers into open supplies of feed (they love maize, for instance - whether in the field or the barn);

> suspend mineral or feed blocks out of badger reach;

> fence off obvious sett or latrine areas from cattle access (or put sheep there instead);

> allow cattle to use their considerable olfactory powers of discrimination during grazing - i.e. don't force them to eat badger contaminated herbage through grazing pressure - if necessary, provide extra forage during spells of pasture stress.

> if you see any sick badgers, or badgers wandering around buildings, you will probably soon get problems in your cattle - so that's the time to redouble your efforts to keep them out of cattle sheds and feed areas.

He said about grazing that when you run short, the cattle will start eating around the edges of the fields where the badger often run along.

I also think lamb creep feeders would attract badgers like nothing else if you have any. Also, he didn't mention water troughs which I thought were a problem as well but presume you can't do much about them.

We do use licks but always put them in the middle of the field in the hope that badgers don't like going into the open unprotected areas where they cannot hide quickly. We never put a lick near the gate or water trough. That's just a guess on my part.

I think it's terrible how cattle are slaughtered when heavily pregnant; probably the cruelest thing that happens in farming and yet no-one does much about it, even the RSPCA who keep it very quiet, but who are very vocal when it comes to badgers.

Edited By Broomcroft on 1277194694

bjreroberts · Post by **bjreroberts** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:48 am

Colin,

Very sorry to hear the news, we all live in dread of this happening to our own herds.

I am never sure what to do about licks, I have looked in vain for some sort of holder that will hold the buckets off the ground (you would think the lick manufacturers would offer something). Think it is time I bit the bullet and got some made!

Would barbed wire along the bottom help deter them from squeezing / digging under the stock fence (just as it does with pigs)?

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:13 pm

PS. also double-fencing to keep them away from the cattle next door if there are any.

I wonder with bucket holders, whether you could set them low enough for calves to get at, but high enough for badgers not to if they went up on their hind legs!

strawberriesclint · Post by **strawberriesclint** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:13 pm

Hi

very sorry to hear of your bad news, don't get me started on the badger subject. I'm Sure i'm not on my own when i say that the goverment should get off their butts and so something constructive to help the TB problem. As we keep being told the TB test is not 100% accurate and yet thousands of animals are still getting slaughtered due to the results of these tests. As for heavily pregnant cattle getting slaughtered i think the rspca if they care for all animals as they say they do then where are they when cruelty like this exists.

As for the licks, i buy mine as blocks from molevalley and put a piece of rope through the center and hang from gate posts.

cyndy

AlisonKirk · Post by **AlisonKirk** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:21 pm

Colin

Farming with TB is horrible and very distressing. Having gone through TB ourselves, I really feel for you.

TB is spreading at an alarming rate and for those breeders on a four yearly testing period, please do not be too complacent.

TB was recently found in dairy cattle following a large dispersal sale which saw those cattle moving to all parts of the UK....they were from a four yearly testing area and did require pre-movement testing. I think on the back of that, plans are afoot to prevent such an occurence happening again.

We are thankfully now clear of TB and not due another test until Spring 2011, but will have to pre-movement test anything we sell live.

On reflection, it is better for all concerned for animals to be pre-movement tested and give purchaser peace of mind.

Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters

AlisonKirk · Post by **AlisonKirk** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:22 pm

Ooops..... I missed a NOT out of the bit about those dairy cattle.

Sorry!!

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:44 pm

Hello Colin,

We recently had a silmilar problem. (Not sure if it came from badgers, a cow we brought in from a different place to the others - although originally from the same herd, or from a neighbouring herd that has had a TB problem.)

Anyway we had a reactor recently, she went off of course and was killed. They found no lesions in her but my son who is a vet tells me quite forcefully that that does not mean that she did not have TB.

We are now awaiting our next test to see if we get any other reactors and are keeping our fingers crossed.

I have checked my hedge lines etc to see where badgers may be running and also no longer allow my cattle access to the paddock that contains the brook, as I assume badgers may well move that way, although I have seen no sign of badgers or a sett on the farm. Also I feed Mag Rolls in troughs which I turn over at night. Difficult to know what else to do!

Stephanie

bjreroberts · Post by **bjreroberts** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:35 am

Saffy wrote:They found no lesions in her but my son who is a vet tells me quite forcefully that that does not mean that she did not have TB.

The Midland Dexter Group had a presentation from a vet earlier in the year.

He stated a similar view, the test is very accurate a positive reactor does have TB. If no lesions are found at post mortem it does not mean the animal did not have TB, simply that the disease is at early stages, or could not be found within the time allowed for post mortem.

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:15 am

The only experience we've had so far touch wood, is that we had a bull that was inconclusive but right on the borderline of being a reactor. It was so close the vet almost gave me the feeling he could go either way. Only a few months before he had been clear without any lumps at all to even measure. We were told to isolate the bull and he was tested again 60 days later. Exactly the same result, which wasn't expected, it should have changed apparently.

Anyhow, the DEFRA vet said it wasn't the bovine TB we are all scared of, it was a virtually harmless "cousin" (Skin TB, I think it was called, not sure). He described the condition about as serious as warts. Another vet said it was possible that the test itself gave him the condition.

Problem was that although he did not have Bovine TB, the fact he reacted to the test meant that the condition masked the results. So he could have had real TB as well as Skin TB, we would never know.

Anyhow, DEFRA said he could go on as normal even though he reacted and we could use him, sell him, eat him, whatever. Can't remember precisely what happened, but I had him tested yet again for some reason, and he was totally flat, no lumps whatsoever, simply nothing to measure!!!

But I got really fed up of all this, so we culled him and got £700.

Edited By Broomcroft on 1277284979

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:25 am

PS. and the only way the condition could be passed from cow to cow (the Defra Vet said) was by blood, so two bleeding animals would have to meet cut to cut. How on earth he got it is a mystery. And even though that was years ago, we've virtually never had another lump to measure.....yet! Only a matter of time.

Edited By Broomcroft on 1277285209

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:29 am

Hello Clive,

Yes it is all a bit crazy isn't it. The previous year we had an inconclusive heifer that was completely flat on her next test and has been ever since, so she must have been quite clear in the first place.

The thing is our cow that reacted had a permanent small lump on her neck and we do wonder if that was mistaken for a reading but we will never know. She was completely clear on every other test but we always mentioned the lump, the vet was very irritated by this saying don't be silly, the lump wasn't in the right place and so last time we didn't say anything. Obviously if we get more reactors we will know - the hard way won't we!

Stephanie