Transport Certificate of Competence (UK) - From 5 January 2008

[Broomcroft]

A Landrover with an empty 12' IW livestock trailer (the most common) will be nearly 3.5 tonnes without any animals on board!!! And the maximum approved weight would be about 5.5 tonnes!

[areoch]

These transport regulations are serious. They apply across the board, not only carraige of livestock beyond 50Km, but to any goods if carried for hire or reward. The implications are far reaching, eg., if you carry an animal to be butchered within 50Km of home, then travel a further distance to collect, say, feedstuffs, which takes you beyond 50Km of home, you can and will be fined and probably served with a prohibition notice.
Getting a smaller trailer will seldom suffice, since we are talking about a maximum train weight, not the actual weight of your combination !
In the more remote areas where many of us operate from, it is going to be illegal to carry out most of the operations we previously thought nothing about.
I priced a digital tacho installation - only currently available for very few types of vehicles - at £1600.
Is this a covert action to put more and more small operators off the road ?
Morton Muirhead, Arran.

[Broomcroft]

Reading another forum what they are saying is that if you are transporting for someone else and your total POSSIBLE weight is over 3.5t then you need a tacho no matter what distance you are travelling. Any 4X4 with a decent sized trailer will be way over 3.5t usually.

But if it's your own goods / livestock on board, then you only need a tacho if you are doing more than 50km. I assume the 50km means the total trip.

It is not the actuals weights involved, it is the possible weights they say on the forum. So my 4X4 weighs 2.7t, and it is rated to 3.5t towing, so that's a total of 6.2t no matter if the trailer is empty or full.

But it is only hire or reward so not when going to shows I would assume. Is taking your own steers for slaughter for your own freezer hire or reward? I would say not, but if you're selling the meat it must be I suppose. Towing your horse around for enjoyment wouldn't apply.

That's how I read it, but they say speak to your 4X4 supplier or local VOSA office to clarify.

We are 60km away from our nearest small abattoir. The only local one is a big commercial one, and also a number of local markets. There's no way we are spending £1600 per vehicle (we have two), so this changes our ideas on everything.



Edited By Broomcroft on 1267354637

[Broomcroft]

Sorry, crossed with your post Morton.

Someone just confirmed it is a 50 km radius of the vehicle's base, as you say.

[areoch]

Clive, re 'speak to your 4x4 supplier', be very wary of going down that route for advice - I spoke to 3 main franchises on Friday, and had to explain the current rules to them, so for anyone on the point of spending a lot of cash on a 4x4, be very aware of the law BEFORE you speak to your dealer !!
Morton, Arran.

[SteveM]

I think the main thing is not to panic and wait to see what happens, and how widespread the stopping of trailers becomes.

We have had the transport certificate of competence legislation for two years now and I have not heard of anyone being stopped and checked.

The vosa regulations regarding 3.5 tonne train weight and trailers are probably more aimed at people employed in road haulage using a 4x4 and trailer to get around the tachograph regulation.

Looking at the driving hours legislation which tachographs are designed to record there appears to be a provision for paper records, which I would have thought may be covered by the start time, journey duration and stop times that you record when moving livestock under the certificate of competence.

[SteveM]

Cant edit the previous post, as my last paragraph the animal animal transport certificate (wit 6) has provision for journey start time, where and when stops took place and the time of offloading, so is effectively a record of driving hours.

For the instances where people have been stopped was the vehicle a landrover or pickup classed as a commercial vehicle, or a private car style 4x4 ie with seats througout. ie lwb 7 seat shogun or similar

[areoch]

According to NFUS legal helpline, the only possibility of avoiding prosecution if stopped while above the 3.5t train-weight is if you have written confirmation from the vehicle manufacturer or their agent, that your tow vehicle cannot be fitted with a digital tachograph, in which case you should have completed old-style log book details recording the necessary start/stop/rest/work times. Even then individual discretion has to be exercised by the Officer. The outcome COULD be that you must change your vehicle to one which accepts a digital tacho if you choose to continue towing above the 3.5t trainweight.
Ignoring the situation only means an uncomfortable journey, always on edge watching the mirror, and praying some idiot does not cause an incident outwith your control - not a stress free operation !!
Morton, Arran

[Buryhill Dexters]

There are a whole list of excemptions & derogations that need reading to ensure if one actually falls within the requirements before getting too concerned about the tacho laws, some of these include :

"Vehicles used by agricultural,horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery undertakings for carrying goods as part of their own entrepreneurial activity within a radius of 100 km from the base of the undertaking." - so Clive this would suggest that you are OK with your abbatoir trips

"Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum
permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes used for
the non-commercial carriage of goods." - If you class your activities as a hobby rather than a business whether attending shows or taking to slaughter this should be Ok.

Also for those who must fit a tacho digital tachos are only required for later year vehicles, I beleive 2003 onwards, and the cost of fitting an analogue style tachograph are much lower, in the region of £400 - £500 & able to be fitted to the majority of earlier 4x4's.

[Broomcroft]

The outcome COULD be that you must change your vehicle to one which accepts a digital tacho if you choose to continue towing above the 3.5t trainweight.

I'm not joking.....We changed our main 4X4 yesterday morning .

How much are digital tacho's and where do you get them from?



Edited By Broomcroft on 1267379163

[SteveM]

If a tacho ends up being a requirement for a 4x4 towing a trailer it may be cheaper to pick up a 2nd hand non hgv 7.5 tonner. May work out cheper than a 4x4 and trailer, possibly not a lot worse on fuel either.

[areoch]

Clive, the only franchise to phone back with a definate costing was Isuzu, who quoted £1600 including VAT for supply and fit of a digital tacho to a new pickup. I would imagine that to be a fairly standard cost since it is contracted out to an authorised agency, which probably fit them to other makes of that class. Mitsubishi said they would confirm this week.
Reading another forum from somebody (not agricultural) who had been fined £200 and forced to backfit a tacho on a panel van towing a trailer, paid out £1500+ , that seems to tie in with my quote.
Incidentally, again from legal helpline, interpretation of 'commercial' seems pretty restrictive - if you are paid for the goods, or have purchased the goods, that means you need a tacho!!
Also, for clarification, the exemptions are - Livestock 50km radius, Goods 100Km radius.
vis.;
' 2 Files Download All
VOSA_Rules_Drivers_Hours_Tachographs_Goods_vehicles.pdf (1780KB); NFU_-_Drivers_Hours_and_Tachograph_Rules.pdf (162KB)


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Dear NFUS Member

I just want to bring to remind you of the latest guidance on the restrictions on drivers hours and tachograph rules. There have been a couple of cases recently where farmers have been stopped by the police when they have been towing a livestock trailer. We also have reason to believe that the police are going to be tightening up on the enforcement of the relevant regulations - so more farmers may be getting stopped over the coming weeks.

As some of you may be aware there are certain occasions when agricultural vehicles are exempted from the regulation, but these are quite limiting. Please find attached a NFUS Business Update which lists all the relevant exemptions. In summary, however, if the combination of your vehicle and trailer exceeds 3.5tonne and you if at any time you are going to be transporting agricultural goods a distance greater than a 100km radius from your farm of if you are transporting livestock a distance greater than 50km from your farm then you will need to have a tachograph fitted to your vehicle and record the drivers hours in accordance with the regulations. I have attached the full guidance from VOSA for your information. '

Perhaps best to refer to VOSA latest update on the subject rather than get weighed down with interpretation of specific points.

[Broomcroft]

Surely, this is a serious problem for smallholders and rare breed keepers! Because they are spread out and small. Most who buy and sell stock between farms will need a tacho because of the distances. It's absurd, bureaucracy gone totally mad. I wonder what the RBST is doing about it?

Is the 50 km radius as the crow flies, or the distance by road?



Edited By Broomcroft on 1267432928

[bjreroberts]

Clive - the 50km radius is as the crow flies.

SteveM - too late I'm panicking. Trying to find out more about this it looks like I am technically illegal anyway for using a trailer capable of carrying 3.5t and a vehicle with a limit of 3.3t!

I think this is going to be a problem for most of us and it is very surprising that it has not been picked up earlier by the farming press.

[Broomcroft]

SteveM - too late I'm panicking.

:D :D :D

It's taken me nearly all day to get through to a Traffic Examiner which is apparently what you need to speak to. Even then it was just an answer phone. Hopefully will get a call back soon to discuss options.