Mentor Needed - Getting ready and lacking confidence!
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Tim Watson
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:28 pm
- Location: South Molton
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Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
- Contact:
. As Duncan says though, it's American so some things don't apply or are different in the UK.-
Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
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1) Can it be simplified to the extent that breeding short/short is something to be avoided because of the 25% risk of bulldog calves?
Yes, that's the important bit, so you breed NS to NS, or NS to Short, but never Short to Short. BUT...the other main point which will affect your decision of what to get, is that when you breed the so-called Short to a non-short, you will get (on average) 50% short and 50% non-short calves. In reality, you may have a run for years of just one type, and then a run for years of the other. It is quite literally a toss of a coin and you toss the coin afresh for every calf, it's always 50/50.
So, if you want Shorts, you have to put up with 50% of calves being non-short and the possiblity of having years of just one or the other (in practise, that seems to be how it goes).
If you want calves to be of a predictable type/size (i.e. to "breed true"), then you must go for non-short, that is the only option to achieve that. You can get non-shorts that are stocky. If you look at Stephanie's recent topic "Rain", the dun cow is a Non-Short. That dun cow will breed true, so most calves will be like mom and dad as you would expect. (This is where Stephanie tells me it's a short!!!)
2) Is a long and short always visible to the eye, manifesting itself in the length of leg or height of the animal?
For a start "longs" which is used as a term, are not usually long, 99% of all dexters are short compared to most other cattle. I actually don't know how to describe a short, others can and probably will, but you can usually tell by looking but not alway. When they walk, they don't stride fore-and-aft, they have a choppy gait. You can have Non-Shorts that you may think are shorts, I personally have never seen a tall Short.
3) If the answer to 2) above is NO, then are DNA tests/results required to guarantee the identification of long and short?
Yes, DNA test is the only guarantee. Having said that, many people will just go by looks and in some cases, whole herds (and Beryl's Woodmagic is the perfect example) are free of the dwarf gene (chondrodysplasia, sometimes shortened to just chondro).
But if both parents of an animal are free of chondro, then it cannot have been passed on to a calf and that calf also cannot ever pass it on ever again, that's the end of it unless re-introduced by a chondro animal being brought into the breeding later.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1258911964
Yes, that's the important bit, so you breed NS to NS, or NS to Short, but never Short to Short. BUT...the other main point which will affect your decision of what to get, is that when you breed the so-called Short to a non-short, you will get (on average) 50% short and 50% non-short calves. In reality, you may have a run for years of just one type, and then a run for years of the other. It is quite literally a toss of a coin and you toss the coin afresh for every calf, it's always 50/50.
So, if you want Shorts, you have to put up with 50% of calves being non-short and the possiblity of having years of just one or the other (in practise, that seems to be how it goes).
If you want calves to be of a predictable type/size (i.e. to "breed true"), then you must go for non-short, that is the only option to achieve that. You can get non-shorts that are stocky. If you look at Stephanie's recent topic "Rain", the dun cow is a Non-Short. That dun cow will breed true, so most calves will be like mom and dad as you would expect. (This is where Stephanie tells me it's a short!!!)
2) Is a long and short always visible to the eye, manifesting itself in the length of leg or height of the animal?
For a start "longs" which is used as a term, are not usually long, 99% of all dexters are short compared to most other cattle. I actually don't know how to describe a short, others can and probably will, but you can usually tell by looking but not alway. When they walk, they don't stride fore-and-aft, they have a choppy gait. You can have Non-Shorts that you may think are shorts, I personally have never seen a tall Short.
3) If the answer to 2) above is NO, then are DNA tests/results required to guarantee the identification of long and short?
Yes, DNA test is the only guarantee. Having said that, many people will just go by looks and in some cases, whole herds (and Beryl's Woodmagic is the perfect example) are free of the dwarf gene (chondrodysplasia, sometimes shortened to just chondro).
But if both parents of an animal are free of chondro, then it cannot have been passed on to a calf and that calf also cannot ever pass it on ever again, that's the end of it unless re-introduced by a chondro animal being brought into the breeding later.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1258911964
Clive
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Tim Watson
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:28 pm
- Location: South Molton
So why isn't everyone breeding out chondro - or perhaps they are? If Beryl has done it surely others can as well? Is there a record kept of how many bulldog calves are born in a year as a measure of short to short breeding? And on that basis, looking at the breed standard there is no mention of short, long (or non-short) in the size section, only in the type?
Puzzled!
Puzzled!
Tim
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springwater
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:28 am
Not my personal preference but ....