Bull Registrations (UK) - ....falling through the floor

LewisMoore · Post by **LewisMoore** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:35 pm

when i rang the dcs they said that it would be £50 for the bull himself and £20 per parent to DNA it, and that now i've got him notificated i had until he was 18months old to register him. is this not correct?

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:47 pm

My apologies, I should have checked it out first! I think they have reduced since I last enquired. However unless you are absolutely certain, you should include the achondrodysplasia test, if you are rearing a bull, which will mean another £18.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

LewisMoore · Post by **LewisMoore** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:30 pm

£108 is still pretty steep. i hope that the price is lowered!:D

Edited By LewisMoore on 1212600647

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:10 pm

I agree with Lewis, the cost should be lower. It's far too much.

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:47 am

I think that there is a strong case for bulls to be allowed to be notified, possibly for a small fee, say £5.00, then left elligable for full registration up to two years.

LewisMoore · Post by **LewisMoore** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:25 am

This will also give you time to see how the bull developes aswell.
Lewis

Louisa Gidney · Post by **Louisa Gidney** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:16 pm

And this takes us back to where we were a few years ago when one could provisionally register a promising bull calf for about £10 but make the final decision on whether he was going to make a breeding bull when he'd grown on. I liked that system, it also gave the flexibility to use a young bull on a few females before beefing him under 30 months. If one doesn't want to keep a senior stock bull all year round, this is a good way to go, in my opinion. Again, it makes young bulls affordable if their prime objective is beef but also siring a few calves. Selection will be biased towards beef, which should please those who like a beefy looking animal. It will broaden the genetic base, which will please conservationists. In fact Andrew Sheppy was advocating just this approach some years ago. Duncan might not like it as it could erode the market for £1400 & £700 bulls but DCS should be considering what is best for the breed, not necessarily the breeders. I think we need to make DCS & registration more attractive to bring back in more of the people who have stopped registering stock.

Peter thornton · Post by **Peter thornton** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:57 pm

Absolutely right!

A regsitered bull is a cash cow for the society!

Why?

Because it produces registerable offspring.

Whereas an unregistered bull will produce no income at all for the society.

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:06 am

If the nearest hire bull is not registered, it can reduce income, if owners are tempted to put him over their registered heifers.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:01 pm

Going back to this topic. Yes, bull regs have fallen through the floor compared to what they were, BUT, as has been pointed out to me, they were at a very high level.

8 years ago, according to the financial figures (which I hope are accurate!), an amazing 1 in 8 animals registered was a bull. After that high year, it remained at about 1 in 12 animals being a bull for a few years, and then in 2005 it dropped suddenly to 20:1, and then slid each year until 2007 it has reached a low of 32:1.

Edited By Broomcroft on 1216818148

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:37 pm

When the cost of registering bulls shot up, the response was to think very hard before rearing. Now this is compounded. I know of a least two breeders who hire bulls out, and are being told by the cow owners, they have no intention of registering the offspring with money so tight. They are not all thinking of it as an insurance against a T.B. outbreak!
Beryl (Woodmagic)

monica waltho · Post by **monica waltho** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:59 pm

Looking at the bull for sale list there doesnt seem to be a shortage and they dont appear to be selling very quickly. I know there are quite a few steers on and some young bulls but how many bulls do we need on average to have registered each year? I would imagine we have enough at present because of the abundance of bulls registered inn the past but when these need to be replaced will breeders then decide to breed for themslves again and market forces mean they may get a better price for any surplus.

AlisonKirk · Post by **AlisonKirk** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:25 am

July compensation for pedigree registered bulls slaughtered through TB (whether inconclusive or reactor) is £2,824. If they are not registered, even though pedigree, they would fall under the commercial value which for July is £1,027. The same applies to females. With TB on the increase it is worth giving serious consideration to registering pedigree cattle.

This info can be found under www.defra.gov.uk

Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:29 pm

Your contribution is fascinating Inger, the British Association is identical in that we accept guesses on females but expect a test when registering bulls. At the time I was collecting samples for the chondrodysplasia answer, it was discovered that many owners were unable to correctly identify the two types; the test is necessary in order to be certain. When I founded my herd there was no test, but even today I would never wish to say I could be certain on all occasions. Are you suggesting that in the case of your second carrier type it is even more difficult? What did make me uneasy is the possibility that some labs. are not reliable, if they make mistakes the test becomes an expensive luxury.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:05 am

We've just gone through a similar thing in NZ. We decided to DNA profile all new bulls being registered. Then a couple of years later everyone had to DNA profile all the other bulls that were still being used and still alive. Especially those whose semen was being sold through A.I. We didn't have to parent verify them though. As we knew that it could prove impossible, with many of them having overseas sires and/or the sires being dead. It was thought that by working on profiling the living bulls and all the bulls coming on-line (so to speak), we would eventually have all available bulls peofiled, so that any queries over paternity could be answered genetically. Which was the whole point really.

DNA profiles cost about $30 from an animal genetics testing company in NZ and registration of any calf costs $10 each. We can register up to a year old, then after that its $20. At those prices, its not going to break the bank to register a few of them, then cull out poor performers later. It does mean that we may get a few heifers from the culled bulls, which will keep the gene pool wider than it otherwise would be, if very few bulls are registered.

So although the number of bull calves being registered in NZ has reduced, it has meant that we don't have an over supply of bull calves, like we used to. These days, breeders don't register a bull calf until they have a definite buyer.