Side effects of vaccine?

Penny · Post by **Penny** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:56 am

I have just received a phonecall from someone who has recently vaccinated his herd and subsequently had 2 abortions and 2 stillbirths. This is being investigated, but his advice is wait with vaccination until more is known, as we are the guinea pigs.
I know some members have vaccinated already. Has anyone else had a problem?

It has gone very quiet on the BT front, with delays in the supply of vaccine. Is there something we don't know?

Penny

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:56 am

Penny - 2 abortions and 2 stillbirths out of how many cows? Or were they sheep? Did they occur quickly?

bjreroberts · Post by **bjreroberts** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:57 pm

Read this article http://www.farmersguardian.com/story.a....=19315.

It does make you wonder what is going on.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:11 pm

It is not unusual for delays to occur in release of vaccine batches, and in normal circumstances this mostly passed un-noticed because the batch before and the batch after cover. But with the unusual situation with the mass release of BT vacccine this will not occur - the previous batch will be used more or less as it was released. It may well be just that the tests for quality have not been up to scratch, even in some minor degree.

On the issue of someone seeing two abortions and two stillbirths soon after the vaccination, again I would urge caution in interpreting this as anything to do with the vaccine. It MIGHT be, but it is much more likely just pure coincidence. Over the course of a year I usually have one or two clients have a small cluster of abortions, and I have only 50 or so farm clients. So over the whole country there will be thousands, and if this happens whilst the vaccination programme is underway it could look to the unfortunate individuals that it has been caused by the vaccine, whereas it is much more likely to have been some other cause. The majority of cattle abortions do not have any definite diagnosis even when there is a fairly rigourous investigation - a fact which always disappoints me as a vet.

Duncan

Penny · Post by **Penny** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:40 pm

Don't know all the details. It was dexter cattle, and I think the herd has approx 25-30 breeding cattle. Yes, these things happen and sometimes we never know why. Possibly even the stress of the event.
However, there is apparently some literature from Defra for those who are going to vaccinate which states that the effects of the vaccine on cows in calf is as yet unknown.
I need to stress that this is hearsay, I don't know this for sure.
I was just interested for feedback from those in protection regions.

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:59 pm

Penny,
You are quite correct,the people who have made the vaccine do not promise anything!, and basically say they do not know if this product is safe to use on pregnant cattle or not.
I find this a little worrying as it has supposedly been used quite extensively abroad.
However I have given my cattle their first dose and have had three calves born ok since, I hope I am not tempting fate here.
Marcus

Peter thornton · Post by **Peter thornton** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:48 pm

I have been told that BT vaccine must be administered on it's own and not along with other jabs or dosing. The person who told me this (a vet who has not yet been involved in vaccination) did not know if other jobs could be done the next day or at some other time interval but he did stress that it had to be a job on its own and not batched with something else. Not sure if this is just hearsay but it might point the way to possible issues with it?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:35 pm

I've done the BT vaccination both times on 14 cattle with no ill effects to report so far, except for a lump appearing around the site of the injection, which the vet said is normal. I also want to vaccinate against Clostridia and my vet recommended waiting a some weeks before that. I think the vets are just being prudent given the BT vaccine is new.

Colin

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:27 am

Leptospirosis can cause a spate of calf slips as well. I hope it was just a coincidence that the vaccine was given just prior to the slips.

strawberriesclint · Post by **strawberriesclint** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:14 pm

i to have vaccinated all my dexters and have had 4 calve and all are fine. Surely it is better to loose the calf and save the cow, as replacing a cow costs more than the calf is worth and at least if you vaccinate the cow she can always have another calf.
cyndy

Penny · Post by **Penny** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:43 pm

Glad to hear this.
I was not meaning to be alarmist, but information like that is worth passing on, incase there is a growing trend of evidence. As it is, apparently due to further concerns, one vet is advising all clients not to vaccinate cows close to calving.
Whilst wanting to protect my cows at all costs, I am also slightly hestitant re the vaccine, as it is so new and does nothing to protect stock from the European Blue Tongue virus just 22 miles across the Channel. I am sure it will not be too long before that dear midge decides to get on a prevailing wind and join its African cousins here in the UK. As my district cannot yet vaccinate, I will protect using products such as Spot On, with which I am familiar and know to be effective.

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:18 pm

You can give the cows garlix licks, which as the name suggests contains garlic. this seems to keep the midges at bay.
However you cannot give it to animals within a month of slaughter, as it taints the meat.

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:46 pm

Thanks for that tip Marcus - I hadn't thought about it tainting the meat - although it should have been obvious!!!

Our steer is very fond of it as well.

Stephanie

Penny · Post by **Penny** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:08 pm

As yet I have not found a garlic lick that contains copper, as they are all made for sheep and cattle. As the land I rent is very deficient in copper, if anyone knows of one that has a decent amount please let me know.
I have used garlic licks and love it when the stock come up and burp garlic in my face. Beats "Cow breath" any day!!

carole · Post by **carole** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:30 pm

Hi Penny we were recommended Dennis Brinicombe Tubby range. Have only just put some out for our gang so cannot comment on how well it works but they might be worth a call re the copper content 0800 374325.
Steers thought they would play football with it first and kicked it down the hill (we thought some kind soul had nicked it)