I have been trying to buy a decent short or medium-legged bull,this is proving difficult!.A lot of the bulls I have seen have proven to be a dissapointment,especially the red ones, who seem to have been kept because they have a nice colour but have little else to commend them.
Is it time for bull inspection prior to registration?. I know most people will say it will prove expensive,but surely it is worth it to weed out the inferior stock.After all a bull is half the herd.
What do you think?.
Bull inspection, is it time - as above
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Rutherford
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:08 am
What are the rules you are going to lay down? There are so many diverse opinions of what makes a good breeding bull. There are those who would like to see all carrier bulls eliminated.
The present rules for the elite scheme show little regard for what potential the bull has for breeding good calves; the emphasis is on his appearance alone, not his breeding abilities.
Personally, I believe it far better to leave the odd unqualified bull reared. It is an expensive job in any case to register them, and numbers going forward have dropped drastically. Inspection qualifications on top of cost will certainly mean that we shall stop benefiting, as we have in the past, on the diversity that Professor Bruford praised the breed for. The diversity will decline, as it has in so many of the commercial breeds. We are certain to lose some precious Dexter genes unaware.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
The present rules for the elite scheme show little regard for what potential the bull has for breeding good calves; the emphasis is on his appearance alone, not his breeding abilities.
Personally, I believe it far better to leave the odd unqualified bull reared. It is an expensive job in any case to register them, and numbers going forward have dropped drastically. Inspection qualifications on top of cost will certainly mean that we shall stop benefiting, as we have in the past, on the diversity that Professor Bruford praised the breed for. The diversity will decline, as it has in so many of the commercial breeds. We are certain to lose some precious Dexter genes unaware.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
I'm interested in your description of a short or medium-legged bull being required. Normally I think the terms are short or non-short and there is usually a lot of difference because short bulls should only be used on non-short Dexters whereas non-short bulls can be used on any Dexter. If you are looking for a non-carrier short then you will probably find it easier to find the proverbial needle in a haystack.
As to pre-registration bull inspections, at what age do you suggest because until the bull is mature it would require 20/20 foresight to tell what he might turn into. One would hope a good looking calf would become a good looking bull, but over the last few years I have seen many of my steers who looked nothing special earlier on turn into good looking animals who, under different circumstances could have been useful bulls. It is very expensive already to register a bull calf which means people are unlikely to register the lot in the hope of finding the extra special one later. So I don't know what the answer is.
As to pre-registration bull inspections, at what age do you suggest because until the bull is mature it would require 20/20 foresight to tell what he might turn into. One would hope a good looking calf would become a good looking bull, but over the last few years I have seen many of my steers who looked nothing special earlier on turn into good looking animals who, under different circumstances could have been useful bulls. It is very expensive already to register a bull calf which means people are unlikely to register the lot in the hope of finding the extra special one later. So I don't know what the answer is.
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Louisa Gidney
- Posts: 858
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- Contact:
How do you define inferior? How can you tell just on looks whether he carries attributes like high butterfat, longevity, docility or other useful attributes to pass on? What about fertility? How many gorgeous heifers never turn into cows as they can't be got in calf? A handsome beefy animal, especially a short-leg as Beryl frequently comments, can pass on early on-set arthritis which is not a desirable quality.
Several threads have made the point that "plain" animals can be the most productive in terms of reproductive success and milk yield and quality.
All animals go through a gawky teenage phase when they look the equivalent of gangly and spotty. Would you like to have been assessed for breeding potential at about 17? You cannot make an accurate judgement until maturity. I was told when I started out that you couldn't judge a cow until she was 4, with 2 calves on the ground and a fully developed udder.
As you can see this concept of "inferior" and "improved" are a sore point and you need to refine your terms of reference for a more specific response.
Several threads have made the point that "plain" animals can be the most productive in terms of reproductive success and milk yield and quality.
All animals go through a gawky teenage phase when they look the equivalent of gangly and spotty. Would you like to have been assessed for breeding potential at about 17? You cannot make an accurate judgement until maturity. I was told when I started out that you couldn't judge a cow until she was 4, with 2 calves on the ground and a fully developed udder.
As you can see this concept of "inferior" and "improved" are a sore point and you need to refine your terms of reference for a more specific response.
Zanfara Dexters
Tow Law
Co. Durham
Tow Law
Co. Durham
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Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
- Contact:
Hi Marcus and welcome aboard.
If you're looking at younger bulls and wish to predict what height they will end up at, assuming they are a non-carrier, then there is a growth table that you can use to predict the height which can be found in the downloads section of www.info.dexterbeefonline.co.uk/.
Where abouts are you?
PS. You've asked one of the first question I asked when I first joined this board and I was puzzled by the responses I got. It didn't make any sense to me at all. But it does now.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1212428413
If you're looking at younger bulls and wish to predict what height they will end up at, assuming they are a non-carrier, then there is a growth table that you can use to predict the height which can be found in the downloads section of www.info.dexterbeefonline.co.uk/.
Where abouts are you?
PS. You've asked one of the first question I asked when I first joined this board and I was puzzled by the responses I got. It didn't make any sense to me at all. But it does now.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1212428413
Clive
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
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Rutherford
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:08 am
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Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
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Last night we just had our results back from Signet recording of one of our sheep breeds. We tested the offspring from 2 tups. One a big, fit 135kg which we picked very carefully on his visual appearance from a top flock. The other a squirt at only 95kg and he is not something you would look at twice and we got him quite cheaply.
The one chosen for his obvious physical prowess, is very poor indeed and you can see it in his lambs, now for 2 years running. The lambs from the other are mostly excellent with a few really exceptional ones.
The effect of this is that last year, if we were selling these two tups, people would only look at the one that looks the part, whereas now, people are only looking at the Excel spreadsheet containing the Signet data! What a change around in a year! We have emails from people wishing to buy the very ordinary looking ram! Just had another this morning.
PS. All stock is visually inspected by us for obvious faults like protruding jaws, poor legs etc and eliminated first if there is a fault we are concerned about, but beyond that looks are ignored. Mind you, if I had my way, I'd eliminate the lot just for being sheep :laugh:
Edited By Broomcroft on 1212840255
The one chosen for his obvious physical prowess, is very poor indeed and you can see it in his lambs, now for 2 years running. The lambs from the other are mostly excellent with a few really exceptional ones.
The effect of this is that last year, if we were selling these two tups, people would only look at the one that looks the part, whereas now, people are only looking at the Excel spreadsheet containing the Signet data! What a change around in a year! We have emails from people wishing to buy the very ordinary looking ram! Just had another this morning.
PS. All stock is visually inspected by us for obvious faults like protruding jaws, poor legs etc and eliminated first if there is a fault we are concerned about, but beyond that looks are ignored. Mind you, if I had my way, I'd eliminate the lot just for being sheep :laugh:
Edited By Broomcroft on 1212840255
Clive
That is VERY interesting Clive and goes along with what has been said before - that the bulls looks are not that important we need to look at his female relatives, especially if offspring aren't available to be seen.
We need to take note.
Stephanie
Edited By Saffy on 1212824260
We need to take note.
Stephanie
Edited By Saffy on 1212824260
Stephanie Powell
Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
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Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
https://www.facebook.com/Duffryn-Dexter ... 609196773/