Sound sense Steve, and very much to the point, our little Dexters have been around for many centuries, and will continue to be, long after this storm has passed. Can we stop wasting precious energy, trying to re-write history, and concentrate on the important thing, which is what the DCS is supposed to be all about, the future of this rather special breed?
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Society EGM - Important info
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groubearfarm
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:52 pm
- Location: Tiverton Devon
On behalf of the entire steering committee I would like thank everyone on both sides of the discussion for their involvement, and the help, support and advice from members during the run up to the meeting.
Minutes and a report will be submitted on the website in the near future.
The main issues being addressed by the EGM were as follows
• Technical change to the constitution to bring it line with the law of the land and specifically Companies Act 2006.
• To increase the democracy within the DCS by introducing the use of proxy voting.
• To permit teleconferencing as means of reducing cost and speed of decisions.
• Reduce the council size from 12 to 7 (plus two co-options if required)
• Change the make up of council by removing the executive committee, removing the post of treasurer, and president, thus ensuring collective responsibility of the council by all. It was further proposed that the post of president be changed to be an honorary position outside the council and nominated by members.
Clearly the technical change to the constitution to fall in line with the law of the land is a requirement. The current constitution differs from the one held by the Charities Commission on the subject of confidential minutes, we are at present taking advice from the CC on the best way forward as our present constitution clearly does not fall in line with present law. Requirement for reports from the council to the members need not be enshrined in the constitution but be included in our rules, it is after all good practice to keep the membership informed.
There was obviously concern at the proposed size of council and the inclusion of voting co-opted members.
The Steering Committee will be looking at the options in the next few days, taking into consideration the views and advice of the membership. I believe during this meeting we have achieved a level of democracy which is extremely encouraging and we will now consider the most expedient way forward.
Your constructive comments will always be welcome as we seek to streamline the DCS to provide the levels of democracy and service required by the membership at reasonable cost.
The Steering Committee has not sought major changes in policy, but seeks to deliver a workable management structure to enable a future elected body to take the DCS forward. Fiona Miles
Chairman of Steering Committee
Minutes and a report will be submitted on the website in the near future.
The main issues being addressed by the EGM were as follows
• Technical change to the constitution to bring it line with the law of the land and specifically Companies Act 2006.
• To increase the democracy within the DCS by introducing the use of proxy voting.
• To permit teleconferencing as means of reducing cost and speed of decisions.
• Reduce the council size from 12 to 7 (plus two co-options if required)
• Change the make up of council by removing the executive committee, removing the post of treasurer, and president, thus ensuring collective responsibility of the council by all. It was further proposed that the post of president be changed to be an honorary position outside the council and nominated by members.
Clearly the technical change to the constitution to fall in line with the law of the land is a requirement. The current constitution differs from the one held by the Charities Commission on the subject of confidential minutes, we are at present taking advice from the CC on the best way forward as our present constitution clearly does not fall in line with present law. Requirement for reports from the council to the members need not be enshrined in the constitution but be included in our rules, it is after all good practice to keep the membership informed.
There was obviously concern at the proposed size of council and the inclusion of voting co-opted members.
The Steering Committee will be looking at the options in the next few days, taking into consideration the views and advice of the membership. I believe during this meeting we have achieved a level of democracy which is extremely encouraging and we will now consider the most expedient way forward.
Your constructive comments will always be welcome as we seek to streamline the DCS to provide the levels of democracy and service required by the membership at reasonable cost.
The Steering Committee has not sought major changes in policy, but seeks to deliver a workable management structure to enable a future elected body to take the DCS forward. Fiona Miles
Chairman of Steering Committee
Fiona Miles
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon
I have just come out of hospital after being in all weekend having an operation on my back. I have to say iam disappointed with what i have been reading on the posts regarding the EGM. Everybody will have different views on council matters but can't we find a bit of common ground and just thiink about the important thing here DEXTERS and their future as a breed. I have only just started with dexters in the last year, it took me a couple of years to choose a breed and now iam going to stick with them, there is enough to worry about with keeping cattle without all the infighting.
WHY CANT WE ALL GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER AND BE NICE.
Keep Smiling
Ian Hornsby
WHY CANT WE ALL GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER AND BE NICE.
Keep Smiling
Ian Hornsby
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Chris Downward
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:02 am
- Location: Llanddeusant, South Wales
This subject is now totaly boring, all the internal politics slander and bickering are in grave danger of driving all sensible people away from the society.
What a shame, I'm sure everybody means well but the whole thing has been going on far too long and the arguments are getting so involved that they are difficult to understand.
If it goes on much longer I will see if I can either set up another society or join one of the current ones overseas. All that I need is a society which registers my cattle and promotes the breed, I don't want a highly involved political society which caters for anything else.
Chris Downward
What a shame, I'm sure everybody means well but the whole thing has been going on far too long and the arguments are getting so involved that they are difficult to understand.
If it goes on much longer I will see if I can either set up another society or join one of the current ones overseas. All that I need is a society which registers my cattle and promotes the breed, I don't want a highly involved political society which caters for anything else.
Chris Downward
Chris Downward
Pant Y Turnor
Llanddeusant
Pant Y Turnor
Llanddeusant
Apologies Sylvia and Mark, my comment, intended as a joke, could be interpreted differently and clearly has been on this occassion. I was intending to inject a bit of humour into a situation which is provoking some extreme opinions and widespread condemnation of me for having an opinion. Regardless - sorry Sylvia. (Mark, perhaps you could pass this on please as I gather Sylvia is not now following this exchange.)
Ongoing debate on this issue appears rather pointless as the decision has been made.
Mark spoke well at the EGM when he said that the decision has been made and the membership have spoken. He also made the point that there were some members absent who would have supported the change and others who would have voted against.
I have no doubt that in time most or all of the changes will be passed by the Society, hopefully under the guidance of an elected council. If the proposals had been voted on individually on the day then I would have supported the majority of changes proposed.
We see occassional dramatic declarations that people are going to get out of the breed on these pages. Clive, should you decide to go ahead and sell up your dexter herd give me a shout, I am always looking out for good stock and, despite Sylvia's concerns, I am more than capable of looking after a few more yet. I was disappointed Clive to see that you chose to seek to reprimand me and yet remained silent on Happy Holidays' abuse.
Ken, nice to have some support.
I think that enough may be enough and it may well be worth closing what is proving a devisive topic.
Regards,
Malcolm.
Edited By justmalc on 1211887761
Ongoing debate on this issue appears rather pointless as the decision has been made.
Mark spoke well at the EGM when he said that the decision has been made and the membership have spoken. He also made the point that there were some members absent who would have supported the change and others who would have voted against.
I have no doubt that in time most or all of the changes will be passed by the Society, hopefully under the guidance of an elected council. If the proposals had been voted on individually on the day then I would have supported the majority of changes proposed.
We see occassional dramatic declarations that people are going to get out of the breed on these pages. Clive, should you decide to go ahead and sell up your dexter herd give me a shout, I am always looking out for good stock and, despite Sylvia's concerns, I am more than capable of looking after a few more yet. I was disappointed Clive to see that you chose to seek to reprimand me and yet remained silent on Happy Holidays' abuse.
Ken, nice to have some support.
I think that enough may be enough and it may well be worth closing what is proving a devisive topic.
Regards,
Malcolm.
Edited By justmalc on 1211887761
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
WOW
I go away for the weekend and come back to find it's all kicked off again.
So, here's a four point plan.
1. Organise the AGM somewhere accessible and near a mainline train station. (Birmingham) Time it so most of us can come for the day and, just for this one, forget about farm visits etc.
2. Send out papers with a full explanation of what's proposed.
3. Split the proposals where feasible and sensible.
4. Take some alternative advice as to the 75% rule. I don't believe it applies.
I go away for the weekend and come back to find it's all kicked off again.
So, here's a four point plan.
1. Organise the AGM somewhere accessible and near a mainline train station. (Birmingham) Time it so most of us can come for the day and, just for this one, forget about farm visits etc.
2. Send out papers with a full explanation of what's proposed.
3. Split the proposals where feasible and sensible.
4. Take some alternative advice as to the 75% rule. I don't believe it applies.
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Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
- Contact:
I don't know about the 75% either, but a quick scan on the web on company law sites came up with if it's a normal resolution then a simple majority is required, but if it's a special resolution, which it appears to have been as far as I can see, then 75% is required. That was in a document headed Companies Act 2006 (that's the latest one).
Maybe it needs checking again?
Edited By Broomcroft on 1211910845
Maybe it needs checking again?
Edited By Broomcroft on 1211910845
Clive
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Nikola Thompson
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:14 pm
I am fairly new to Dexters and certainly lack the experience that so many of you have. I have found so many people helpful - Robert and Alison Kirk and Clive to name a couple, but I have had a lot of support from many people in the society. I follow the discussion board and occasionally post. I find it really hard to understand such unpleasantness that seems to go on in the society. The only other society I have found this was the Dartmoor pony society and that was over 8 years ago. I sold my Dartmoors would never have another as a result of a lot of nastiness within the society. ( I have Connemaras now) great society. I am sure all societies have ups and downs but we all want the same - to promote Dexters. I have become so fond of my Dexters and can't believe what charaters these little animals have.
Sorry for the rant - but this all seems to go on and on and on.......
Nikola
Sorry for the rant - but this all seems to go on and on and on.......
Nikola
I have belonged to this discussion board from its very early beginnings and thanks to Mark, dexter owners have a source of communicating which we never had before. I do wonder if most people logging onto this board or using the dextercattle for sale site realize just how much time and work Mark & Chris has put into this FOC. As with all discussion boards, sometimes the discussions get a bit heated. No matter what the eventual outcome of this matter is, it would never put me of keeping dexters.If you have a problem with the fact this subject is being discussed then don't log onto it any more. I never have time to read all the postings if I did I'd never get any work done. I personally think we have a lot to thank the steering group for, despite some suggestions to the contrary they did not ask for this job and they have all given their time selflessly, and I just hope that they will all stick it until the end. I do not wish to bore the readers who are sick of this debate, apart from to make a comment regarding elections. For several years we HAVE NOT had elections as there has not been enough people prepared to stand and unfortunately this is a common trait now affecting many committees not just ours. I do hope that we will get a really good turn out at the AGM and I also think Peter's suggestion about having it near a main station is a very good one after putting over £50 worth of fuel into my car to attend the EGM and BTW Ken fuel in North Yorkshire is £1.31.9 and I to could have found other things to do on saturday but just sometimes in ones life you have to stand up and be counted.
Keep smiling everyone and enjoy your dexters after all the majority of us just want a society which registers our cattle and puts Dexters first and foremost before peoples personal agendas.
Keep smiling everyone and enjoy your dexters after all the majority of us just want a society which registers our cattle and puts Dexters first and foremost before peoples personal agendas.
Peter,
Some really good points. I'm unclear on the 75% rule and, to be honest, was surprised when this was announced at the EGM. We need to find a position where debate can result in changes to the proposals if that is the general feeling. The possibility of splitting proposals would probably move things through quicker.
I remain disappointed that this round of postings has led to little actual debate on the three issues which seemed to give rise to most concern -
The number of Council Members
The use of proxy (as opposed to postal) voting and
The proposal to make the minutes of Council meetings available to members.
Despite our differences Clive has been one of the few members who has actually commented on these points. Many postings have simply been a vilification of my opposition. Perhaps at some point when tempers have settled and ahead of the next vote on the constitution we could discuss these issues calmly and logically. I will leave it for others to initiate these debates.
Mark, I remain grateful for the work you put in on these page and the opportunity you provide to us all to discuss issues of concern. I have to say though that I found your description of Ken as "deceiptful" as a little harsh. I don't know Ken but I do believe that this could have been an honest mistake or misinterpretation. After all, you made an error yourself in your posting which you subsequently corrected.
Anyway, I am really busy over the next ten days with one thing or another. I hope to see you at Rutland Mark and any others who may be there. If I get mugged I would like the names of the Steering Group passed to the police. (Only joking - really.)
Regards,
Malcolm.
Some really good points. I'm unclear on the 75% rule and, to be honest, was surprised when this was announced at the EGM. We need to find a position where debate can result in changes to the proposals if that is the general feeling. The possibility of splitting proposals would probably move things through quicker.
I remain disappointed that this round of postings has led to little actual debate on the three issues which seemed to give rise to most concern -
The number of Council Members
The use of proxy (as opposed to postal) voting and
The proposal to make the minutes of Council meetings available to members.
Despite our differences Clive has been one of the few members who has actually commented on these points. Many postings have simply been a vilification of my opposition. Perhaps at some point when tempers have settled and ahead of the next vote on the constitution we could discuss these issues calmly and logically. I will leave it for others to initiate these debates.
Mark, I remain grateful for the work you put in on these page and the opportunity you provide to us all to discuss issues of concern. I have to say though that I found your description of Ken as "deceiptful" as a little harsh. I don't know Ken but I do believe that this could have been an honest mistake or misinterpretation. After all, you made an error yourself in your posting which you subsequently corrected.
Anyway, I am really busy over the next ten days with one thing or another. I hope to see you at Rutland Mark and any others who may be there. If I get mugged I would like the names of the Steering Group passed to the police. (Only joking - really.)
Regards,
Malcolm.
I have deliberatly kept out of commenting on this issue, but have not been idle as regards to looking into the various aspects of what has gone on and will feed my findings back to the committee,
however I would just like to make one point as regards the council minutes, I serve on various committees and on the town council all of the minutes of these are available usually within a week and any member of the public can have a copy (with the exception of the excempt section) upon request, I'm not advocating the latter for the DCS, but I do agree that we should have sight of the minutes asap.
having said that may I repeat what others have said PLEASE can we put our DEXTERS first without them there is no DCS,
lets all try to do whats best for our dexters and not ruin the society by bickering. Bill Osborne,
Edited By redhill on 1211972289
however I would just like to make one point as regards the council minutes, I serve on various committees and on the town council all of the minutes of these are available usually within a week and any member of the public can have a copy (with the exception of the excempt section) upon request, I'm not advocating the latter for the DCS, but I do agree that we should have sight of the minutes asap.
having said that may I repeat what others have said PLEASE can we put our DEXTERS first without them there is no DCS,
lets all try to do whats best for our dexters and not ruin the society by bickering. Bill Osborne,
Edited By redhill on 1211972289
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Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
- Contact:
On the three issues which justmalc raises:
The number of Council Members
The concern was mainly the practicality of teleconferencing with more than 9 people plus the secretary making 10. That is right on the limit I would think. I have heard of people involved in larger ones and they weren't impressed. So if the number goes higher, you are I think back to traveling and face to face meetings only (and they will be needed of course anyhow sometimes)
The use of proxy (as opposed to postal) voting
I think I prefer the sound of postal voting but would not die in a ditch over it. It could be changed at a later date. Proxy voting has the advantage that the person holding the proxies can listen to debate at the meeting and vote accordingly. The proxy isn't an instruction to the holder to vote in a pre-determined direction, it is people giving him or her their trust to vote in whatever way they feel is right based upon what happens on the day.
The proposal to make the minutes of Council meetings available to members
I don't believe anyone has any issue with publishing normal minutes, except that they're so boring. But Professional advisors and other Breed Secretaries said it was not usual to publish the actual minutes, so they were taken at their word (although an outline and the decisions would be published I believe). The only big issue is that certain minutes should be private and only for board members because they could be very sensitive and which if published, could very easily put the society in a difficult position.
PS. I said I was going to get rid of my Dexters. Had Dexter chilli con carne last night, it changed my mind :;): Yummy.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1211976788
The number of Council Members
The concern was mainly the practicality of teleconferencing with more than 9 people plus the secretary making 10. That is right on the limit I would think. I have heard of people involved in larger ones and they weren't impressed. So if the number goes higher, you are I think back to traveling and face to face meetings only (and they will be needed of course anyhow sometimes)
The use of proxy (as opposed to postal) voting
I think I prefer the sound of postal voting but would not die in a ditch over it. It could be changed at a later date. Proxy voting has the advantage that the person holding the proxies can listen to debate at the meeting and vote accordingly. The proxy isn't an instruction to the holder to vote in a pre-determined direction, it is people giving him or her their trust to vote in whatever way they feel is right based upon what happens on the day.
The proposal to make the minutes of Council meetings available to members
I don't believe anyone has any issue with publishing normal minutes, except that they're so boring. But Professional advisors and other Breed Secretaries said it was not usual to publish the actual minutes, so they were taken at their word (although an outline and the decisions would be published I believe). The only big issue is that certain minutes should be private and only for board members because they could be very sensitive and which if published, could very easily put the society in a difficult position.
PS. I said I was going to get rid of my Dexters. Had Dexter chilli con carne last night, it changed my mind :;): Yummy.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1211976788
Clive
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
Regarding the minutes:
Our District Council minutes are published and in the public domain. However, we occassionally have what we call a "part two item". This is when we are discussing commercially sensitive items, typically tenders, or personal staff matters. These items are not published but are referred to and the final decision published.
i.e. we might be deciding who to appoint to a post. The discussion will be recorded but not published but the name of the person appointed will be published.
Postal/Proxy I prefer postal. Proxy voting needs to be carefully controlled and can get out of hand. Postal voting is the practice of a large number of National organisations and works well providing that the issues are properly explained in the papers.
Our District Council minutes are published and in the public domain. However, we occassionally have what we call a "part two item". This is when we are discussing commercially sensitive items, typically tenders, or personal staff matters. These items are not published but are referred to and the final decision published.
i.e. we might be deciding who to appoint to a post. The discussion will be recorded but not published but the name of the person appointed will be published.
Postal/Proxy I prefer postal. Proxy voting needs to be carefully controlled and can get out of hand. Postal voting is the practice of a large number of National organisations and works well providing that the issues are properly explained in the papers.
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Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
- Contact: