Halter training for auctions - Sale of untrained stock

[justmalc]

I think in the past all cattle sold at Melton have been halter trained with the exception of one small group. It is also likely that halter trained stock will attract higher prices when compared to stock of similar quality.

I know that at York non trained animals are accepted. Personally I would probably put more through Melton if I didn't have to halter train them. If this appears to be a common view among potential sellers I will have a word with Melton market to see if they'll accept non halter trained animals this year assuming blue tongue restrictions allow the sale to go ahead which seems likely. There seem to be plenty of animals currently for sale on these pages so what does everyone think please?

Thanks,

Malcolm.

Malcolm.

[natmadaboutdexters]

I have a couple of Dexters that I would like to sell at Melton but they are a bit lively for me to halter train them but would be perfectly suitable for breeding/fattening. I realise that they may attract lower prices than halter trained ones but then I would expect that anyway when selling them. It would hopefully attract more sellers to the sale, but then I realise that the main point of the weekend is a Show And Sale not just selling so some of the cattle there should have show potential.

Natasha Lewis

[Mark Bowles]

In the past at Melton there has been some lots go thru that were not halter trained, pretty wild infact, needless to say they dont get very good prices. Also bear in mind these cattle at Melton get inspected so there needs to be an element of control to be had, if that is not possible then they would go thru the ring as failed i assume, again lower prices will prevail.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Dexter Cattle Society approved sales should be shop windows for the breed. Good quality animals should be properly presented, and inspected for any obvious faults which if serious enough would warrant rejection. As Mark says some lots have been sold at Melton which could not be handled safely and had to be declared as "subject to visual inspecton only". These would normally sell after all the normal catalogued lots. For the good of the breed I think it is important to maintain the highest possible standards at these sales. In fact there are plenty of other opportunities to sell cattle which do not meet these standard, and that is where they should be sold. Other breed societies operate similar schemes - if you go to a top class pedigree sale expect the standards to be high. If you can't meet the standard sell at other sales or privately. If you destroy the standards at the top sales you lower the prices right down the line.

Duncan

[Sylvia]

Halter training or not does not raise the quality of the animal (or lessen it if not halter trained). A good animal - true conformation, good breeder, good milker, a picture to behold, is still that whether halter trained or not. Being shown on a halter may well help the animal to 'show' itself to its best advantage with an expert handler and may appeal to the person who wants to show. But equally it may raise lesser quality animals up a notch which could be confusing for newcomers to the breed and not good for the breed itself.

In addition it is almost impossible to predict how animals who are not shown regularly are going to react in the high pressure atmosphere of an auction.

If the Dexter Society thinks the Dexter should be known as a 'show' cow rather than a sound commercial proposition it should make this very clear so that people know what they are getting into before they buy their first Dexters.

[Rutherford]

Personally, I am not keen on selling at auction; I prefer to have control over who buys my animals. However, there are obviously occasions where a sale is forced, and the history of the breed is littered with such sales, with the breed discredited because no interested buyers were present.
I cannot see that a closed shop helps the breed. Every effort should be made by the Society to see that where, for instance illness causes a forced sale, the animals are not sold for derisory prices. Since I have never shown, very few of my animals are halter broken, although they are certainly not wild. Many have gone into small herds where they have often been halter trained later, and I put great emphasis on my bulls having a good temperament to pass on to their daughters.
Comparison with other breed’s sales seems rather pointless; their average prices are often in thousands, and they can then justify the labour of intensive handling. One newcomer dominated the Melton Mowbray sale last year, and newcomers to the breed paid both of the record prices. Lets hope it is sign of things to come, but I wouldn’t hold my breath, the ‘ the other opportunities’ have averages at present nearer £250 - £350. Hence so much talk these days of selling heifers for meat rather than breeding, not simply to cull the worst, but because there was no money to be had from breeding.
I would also like to see a greater effort, on the part of the society, to ensure that newcomers are taught that although the Dexter is hardy and capable of finding a living where many breeds would fail, they do need more than a starvation diet, many novices have no idea of the capacity of a bovine stomach.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

[justmalc]

I agree with the last two posts that the fact that an animal is halter trained has absolutely no bearing on the quality of that animal. A poor quality animal can be halter trained just as easily as a good quality animal.

Unless I wanted to show the animal or it was a bull when halter training often aids handling I would have no hesitation in buying an untrained animal at auction.

Having spoken to Melton Market they have no objection in principal to untrained animals going through the ring subject to any objections being raised by the society.

[Martin]

With cull cows now fetching close to £2 per kilo dead weight there should be no excuse for accepting low prices.

Martin. Medway Valley Dexters.

[Saffy]

I have never shown a Dexter so am unable to comment on that side of the debate.

However going back to Beryl and her point about newcomers , people do buy animals and not just Dexters, or even farm animals, with enough knowledge of how to look after them.

Perhaps some enterprising person who has kept Dexters for several years could write a “How To” booklet on - Your First Year in Dexters. It could include a chapter on the different types of Dexter and conformation, another on facilities, fencing, fodder and how to settle them in and what should be on hand before they arrive, right through to a little on when to get the vet and the AI man.

Would people buy it when or before they bought their Dexters?

I expect it has been mentioned before and I am just covering old ground. Or maybe there is one and I didn't know!!!

Stephanie

[Rutherford]

Sadly Martin, it is true, cull cow prices have almost doubled in the last four months, but I would not want to base my breeding on the prediction that it will last.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

[Saffy]

My day job is - Sport Injury Therapist. One of my clients owns a small meat packing company, he buys cattle mostly at markets, sometimes privately on the hoof. He says the supermarkets are keeping the wholesale price artificially up to squeeze out the little butcher and the little abattoir and nobody wants to buy his meat at the moment.

I believe him!

When/if the supermarkets get it all to themselves – what then?

[Martin]

Don't believe him Saffy, there is a partial ban on Brazilian beef at the moment which is one factor, and there is a genuine shortage of beef throughout the EU. Also the national dairy herd is still contracting, so less dairy crosses are coming forward.
Beryl, I mentioned cull prices as it should put a bottom in the market for all types of stock, I did not wish to give the impression that we should aim for that market, though it does give a choice especially if the stock you wish to move is not what the pedigree market requires.

Martin.

[Rutherford]

It is true the Brazilian ban is boosting prices, but I suspect the supermarkets are using any opportunity to hog the market, and can afford loss leaders. Whatever the circumstances, I think present prices are unlikely to prevail for long. Brazil will be making efforts to get the export ban lifted, and prices will tumble.
What worries me is how many good Dexters may be sacrificed meanwhile, for lack of sensible prices for breeding stock.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

[Broomcroft]

We decided 4 years ago to go for Dexters because they tasted better than anything else. No other reason at all. We decided to go into farming because although it was depressed, we thought that the cost of transport would eventually go through the roof at which time, farmers would be in the very fortunate position of having a mass market surrounding them that was eager to buy food from the UK. So the higher the price of fuel goes, the happier I am because eventually, and not too far off, farm prices will be driven much higher as long as people aren't hit so hard hit that they can't afford anything!

That's what I think, but if I'm wrong I'm about to go bust :laugh:.

I don't think Duncan was saying that animals are better if they are halter trained. But sort of on that point, my best beef cow, the one that produced my bull calf with beef figures more like a Limo percentage-wise (and fantastic taste, according to 3 out of a panel of 4 Dexter-eaters), is very ugly and if I took her to a show, she would probably sell for about £50!

Personally, I think there is an excessive concentration of effort/importance put on showing when compared to beef, milk(?) and smallholding (probably the vast majority of Dexters fall into the latter category?).



Edited By Broomcroft on 1209657145

[Martin]

I believe there will always be a demand for good animals from either present or new Dexter keepers. I also believe that many females that should be sent for meat are kept just because they are female, most of us have come across this type of animal before. Breeders should be more selective in their choice of animals kept, of course because of the manner in which a lot of Dexters are kept emotion plays a big part in the selection process which is not always best for the breed.

Martin.