Genetic testing

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:11 pm

Are many in UK using the Genetic testing through DCS yet? I have just got the results on 5 animals back, all non-carriers of the chondrosysplasia gene. These are Shilton Pontius, Saltaire Drill, Burnside Alison, Burnside Brigadier, and Burnside Challenger. Because of parentage I can now be certain that Burnide Betony, Burnside Candytuft, Burnside Dill and Burnside Daisy are also free.
Shilton Pontius was purchased at roughly 6 months and is now 4yo, of pure Woodmagic lines. At 3yo he was 40inches at the rump, and I don't think he will have changed much, but later in the year I will try to get some pictures and measurements done . Brigadier and Challenger are his sons out of short legged cows which both had bulldogs hence the need to test them
Duncan

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:58 am

Hello Duncan,
Thank-you for putting that information up.
I would be most interested to here what the other animals pedigrees are and what they measure ...when you get to doing it...

Regards
Kathleen.

Post by **Mark Bowles** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:52 am

Hi Duncan,
could you enlighten us some more on the actual tests.
I assume they are blood tests taken by a vet? ( yes i know you are a vet).
How long did you wait for the result,did you apply for it thru the DCS office and how much did it cost?
Also did it only confirm what you already knew ie. they were non-short cattle or did you get a non-carrrier result from what you thoght to be a true short leg.
Thanks
Mark

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:35 pm

I'd like to do this when I have some time. Could you answer a couple of questions please? 1) Is it OK to just do the short leg animals, I didn't know non-shorts could be carriers. 2) I thought I saw that hair samples could be used for testing - if so is there a better place to take the hair from and can it be cut or does it have to be pulled out. Ouch! Many thanks in advance.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:40 pm

Hello all,
I will try to answer both Mark and Sylvia in this so hope I cover all points. For those of us in UK, the Chondrodysplasia gene can be tested for by sending to the Dexter Cattle Society for the number of sampling kits required. It is expected that most breeders will take hair samples themselves, and full instructions are included for getting good hair samples. Actually I did send blood just cos I think it is easier for me to get a blood sample without risk of contamination than hair - I wouldn't think it would cost a fortune to have a vet do it if you did't want to send hair yourself if the vet was on farm for something anyway. But warning might be appreciated so they had the right sort of blood tubes.
I took the blood on 10th March and just got the results on 9th April but there was a wee bit of confusion over how many I had asked to be done on the Duplex test which reduces the chance of error to one in a million, so I would think normal time would be 2 -3 weeks. No money is sent when you ask for the kits, or when you send the samples, but when the lab in Holland sends the results to DCS you are told the exact payment due since it can vary according to exchange rates. I am pleased to say that it took less than 24 hours for the results to travel by post from the society office to Bute.
The reason for me getting the test done was to be belt and braces sure with those I use for breeding that they are non-carriers. Shilton Pontius is 100% Woodmagic bred and whilst I have no doubts I know that two breed inspectors are reputed to have declared that his sire is short legged. Pontius himself was 40" at the rump when he was 3 years old. I also tested two cows which are mothers of Pontius calves I wish to breed from, and two home-bred bulls by Pontius but out of short-legged cows.
All five have given non-carrier results, so I am very pleased but not surprised!
Duncan

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:01 am

Sylvia wrote:I'd like to do this when I have some time. Could you answer a couple of questions please? 1) Is it OK to just do the short leg animals, I didn't know non-shorts could be carriers. 2) I thought I saw that hair samples could be used for testing - if so is there a better place to take the hair from and can it be cut or does it have to be pulled out. Ouch! Many thanks in advance.

Hello Sylvia,
I knew I'd find I'd missed the point when I looked back at your questions. Sampling - hair must be pulled from the tail head or back of neck, as it should have the follicle attached - that is where they get the DNA from. If you hold such pulled hair up to the light you will see tiny bulbs at the end of it. Use a very clean or clean gloved hand to avoid contamination having combed or brushed any dust, hair off other animals etc from the area. Don't worry too much about it hurting - it hurts a lot lot less than giving birth to a bulldog.
Long legged Dexters cannot carry the bulldog gene - but some long legged animals have legs that are so short it is difficult to tell. I am using one such bull to try to get DEXTERS WITH SHORT LEGS which are non carriers, as contrasted with short-legged dexters if you see what I mean. Others may not agree but I think this is the only way we will get short legged non carriers. I now have several heifers off Pontius which will be mated to bulls off him. I know the risks of inbreeding - the project will either be a glorious success or a dismal failure, and it will take several years to find out. Unfortunately having such a small herd adds to the risk but I can't expand any more at present.
Anyone counting the sins of breeding I am committing should also add in something for the fact that some of mine are polled and I still think they are Dexters! Oops, I didn't say that did I?
Duncan

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:50 am

Most interesting Duncan
I only have long legged or non-short as some prefer to call them - can I take it that they do not carry the bulldog gene or should I have them tested anyway?
Perhaps I should simply have Apple Joe's son tested, he is out of a non-short cow but is more compact and shorter than she is!
Also wondered about DNA testing of all stock so pedigrees are proven - is that done at the same time?
Many thanks, Jo

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:26 pm

Jo Kemp wrote:Most interesting Duncan
I only have long legged or non-short as some prefer to call them - can I take it that they do not carry the bulldog gene or should I have them tested anyway?
Perhaps I should simply have Apple Joe's son tested, he is out of a non-short cow but is more compact and shorter than she is!
Also wondered about DNA testing of all stock so pedigrees are proven - is that done at the same time?
Many thanks, Jo

Hello Jo,
essentially you can have your stock DNA tested for any of the tests available if you want to pay for it, They can be checked for parentage, but remember you ideally should have samples for o both parents, they can be checked for the bulldog gene, testing done to two levels, the lower one acurate to 1 in 1000, the belt and braces Duplex test should have an accuracy of 1 in 1million. They can tell now if a black beast is carrying red or dun as well. I was too mean to have mine done on the colour side though with red in some of my older black cows(I know cos they had red calves) a red cow in the herd, and using a dun bull, I will have some interesting combinations.
Back to your son of Apple Joe - if he is significantly shorter than his mum at 2-3yrs it might be a good idea. Have any other breeders seen him, what did they think?
Duncan

monica waltho · Post by **monica waltho** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:05 pm

Hello,
Has anyone had any surprise results? or did it confirm what you already thought.
Mark asked this ? on April 10th but no replies.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:34 am

monica waltho wrote:Hello,
Has anyone had any surprise results? or did it confirm what you already thought.
Mark asked this ? on April 10th but no replies.

Hello Monica,
my five animals tested gave exactly the results I expected because I know the breeding of them, but the bull Shilton Pontius might be a surprise to many when they see him. Later in the year I hope to get some photos of some of mine to put on the site and you will see what I mean. At the age of 3yrs he was 40.5 inches high at the rump. I believe that Woodmagic Hedgehog is 39 inches. Woodmagic Black Rat, sire of Shilton Pontius, has reputedly been declared to be short legged by two DCS inspectors. DNA testing can settle such misconceptions with no doubts.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who tested an animal expecting it to be a carrier based on appearance but finds that it is a non-carrier.
Duncan