problem cows!! - bad cows!!

seacon dexters · Post by **seacon dexters** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:28 pm

hey everybody!! I have two dexters but they are mad!! I need to get them into a trailer. I tried this earlier today but all I got was a broken wall and a very broken fence!! Can you please give me some advice!!

From,
Phillip

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:01 pm

Hi Phillip,
If you check further down the page to the topic 'getting cows in from the field' or similar wording you will see that you are not alone. There is also some good advice posted.

Martin. Medway Valley Dexters.

seacon dexters · Post by **seacon dexters** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:08 pm

I have tried the advice several times but it has never worked!! One of the cows tried to jump two walls and a fence and then faced my uncle!! She is extremely stubborn!!!

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Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:27 pm

If you have any other cows yourself which will go in, put them in for company, and they may all go in together, then try to get the ones you don't want back out. I know it can be tricky but it can work - I had to do it collecting a bull about two weeks ago. He had jumped two different fences had been temped back into holding pen once, resisted the second time, but came in with other cows and two dogs assisting. The we got him in the trailer with 3 cows, lost him twice trying to get the last one out, and finally managed to hold him facing the opposite way with his ring whilst we got the last cow out.

If you are really desparate, have no other cows but can borrow some, any breed as long as quiet mature cows, think about that.

If they are reasonably quiet but just panic at loading, it may be possible to use a halter and a long rope to pull them in, haaving led the rope through a ventilator in the trailer. Don't use a machine to pull in case you do them damage, and don't pull on a simple neck rope. Just take up slack every time they move, and you will get them there. Don't get hurt and don't get rope burns.

Duncan

moomin · Post by **moomin** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:31 pm

Use a bit of bovine psychology.
Cows hate going into strange places, they like to look and smell where they are going.
One person can often load cows better than two just by giving them time.
The following technique may take a lot of patience especially after they have just had a bad experience which will need to be undone.
Put their food in the trailer, nowhere else and leave the trailer open. They will eventually go in because they will be hungry at this time of the year. When they go in the trailer to feed don't try to shut the tailboard let them go in and out for a few days. The person who is attending them may walk round in a wide circle at first gradually getting closer each day. Have ONE person only attending, not a pack of people, until they gain confidence. Remember in their world you are the predator, you have predators eyes placed at the front of your head. They are the prey so don't stare directly at them, turn your head sideways as you walk around the trailer, [this always helps when moving cattle].
Eventually they will be confident about going in a strange place and may even follow you in for food. One day you will be able to shut the tail board!
We had a "wild" steer out in 3000 acres of wheat and maize on the open cliff edge last year for 9 months. [We thought he might go over the cliffs and didn't know how DEFRA would take burial at sea, it is not mentioned in the guidelines!]
We used every means we knew - led two quiet cows out - lots of people herding etc and nothing worked. Tried to find somebody with a tranquiliser gun but couldn't.
We thought we would have to shoot him where he was.
It was this time of year when we caught him using this technique. We just fed him in the trailer, first of all on the tailgate and then right inside. Kathy who works for me gained his confidence, it took about 10 days but she eventually shut the tailgate, I got a very excited 'phone call at the time. [He now follows her if she is in the field.]
It should be easier if you can have them in a more confined space than 3000 acres. Be very patient. Good luck.
Di
P.S. There is a very good book on Cattle Behaviour by C.J.C. Phillips. Available from Farming Press, Ipswich. It is well worth reading.

Penny · Post by **Penny** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:29 am

Di,
thanks for putting this in. Force and "rounding up" only causes panic and alarm that will make future loadings even worse. Cattle like to follow a lead, there should not be obstacles in their way and they should be able to see ahead. Make sure that the vent holes are open in the trailer to let in light, and if the light is poor, have a torch in the trailer, also some straw and a haynet. Keep it as relaxed as possible. If there are a few people or someone slapping the cow on the back, you will have a fast exit!
As Di says, one person can have more luck than several, and if the attempt to load has ended in spectacular fashion, such as yours, then it is best to leave it for a while.
I had one steer go awol on conservation grazing. All the rest loaded but he panicked. For the next week I left some hay at the edge of a pen, then slowly further in. On "D Day" I took a well behaved, halter-trained heifer and led her as bait until the steer followed her into the pen. My husband was out of sight, lying on his stomach holding a long length of bailertwine so that when the steer was safely in, he could pull the string and the gate quietly swung to behind him. Slowly, slowly catchy dexter!
If your dexter is "mad" they are probably very panicked. My vet always comments about how, when moving the cattle, I have them following me instead of herding them up and following behind them. That is cow psychology.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:59 am

I quite agree that Di's approach is ok if time is not important, but if time is limited something must be done. As I mentioned we had trouble loading a bull 3hr 70 mile journey each way from home, not including ferries, and whilst it may have worked to leave the trailer and go back when the bull had got used to going in, it just was not practicable. I sense some urgency in the request for help here hence the approach I have suggested. But more patient ways may pay off if there is time.

As Ann says one person is often better than an army. If I am moving cattle I usually go alone, and can catch them no bother.

The bull loaded with assistance of dogs etc arrived at our place as quiet as a lamb, walked from the trailer slowly into a pen some 30 yards away and began eating hay. The forced loading solved the problem and has done him no long term harm whatsoever.

All of my own herd can be loaded from a pen into which they go for food or just curiosity, have halters put on and walk into trailer no problem. They have to do that from baby calves so just accept it. But if cattle have not been used to that other methods need to be used.

Duncan

Louisa Gidney · Post by **Louisa Gidney** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:40 am

This topic really does emphasise that handling and halter training one's cattle pays dividends in the long run. I always approach my beasts from the rear, speak their name & scratch their tail head. Then sidle along & pop halter on head. Usually 5 minutes of "I can run faster than you before", with the halter round the horns, before the "Oh, go on then" of slipping it over the nose. The older cows have got to the stage where I just need to show them the halter & they know I want to move them & usually guess correctly where I want them to go. Otherwise a couple will come up for me to put the halter on. Showing cattle works wonders, they all used to love going out & one cow still thinks it's her turn for a ride out & walks straight into the trailer every time it goes in her field. They do need a treat to equate the trailer with a good experience, either going to new grass, bull going to new cows etc. Driving the trailer is important too, so they are not thrown about. Mine like the flaps open so they can see the view, if the gaps were bigger I'm sure they would have their heads out, like dogs from car windows.
I also concur that one person, who the cattle know & trust, will have more success than a gang of strangers. I have lost count of the number of times I have caught & moved one of the bulls with a bunch of spectators just standing watching "in case I needed help", though always useful to have persons to open & shut gates.
I'm behind hand with haltering the young stock but even the beef cattle get spoken to & scratched & loaded really easily with a short race of gates.
It also helps if you use mum to train youngsters.
Nothing is guaranteed to work all of the time. These are, after all, Dexters. But I know when I've reached the stage of shouting at them (& maligning their illustrious pedigrees!) that it's time to put the kettle on & start again when we've all calmed down.

Post by **Mark Bowles** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:21 pm

All the above is very good advice and when you realise it,it is common sense... just that you never actually thought of it yourself.
My comments are, when you start out with dexters buy one that is approachable or even halter trained, life is so much easier. Even when halter trained it can be tricky getting the halter on in an open field, thats where carrotts come in. Get your animals used to the taste, feeding on the floor, then progress to feeding from your hands, this wont take very long. The animals will get greedy and some of mine come running when they hear me snap a carrott in half. Put your left hand thru the nose part of the halter holding a carrott, as they take it then slip the rest of the halter with the right hand over the head, it works a treat. Also, slip a halter on your 2/3 day old calves and tie them up for half an hour, easiest done if they are housed, not so easy if they have calved in the field.
There is no reason why you cant halter train a steer, i dont go out of my way to do it, but when its time to go, and the steers that have been on a halter with their mothers to shows never forget, you can just lead them into the trailer, plus they dont get stressed on the journey to the abatoir.

Overall get your animals to have confidence in you, mingle with them, touch them, even talk to them.Your enjoyment from them will increase as you and they feel at one together.
To commercial cattle people this may seem bonkers! but when the foot trimmer comes and i catch each cow (by the way i have 22 adult cows)one at a time out of a 8 acre field he cant help but smile, and i have had commercial farmers visit that scratch there heads in wonderment at their laid back temprement.
Like most things in life, you tend to get back what you put in, hopefully!
All the best.

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:43 pm

I've got them on to a trailer before by getting them in an enclosure behind the open trailer and looking the other way as though I want them not to go on. It worked!

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wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:01 pm

Phillip, any cow will jump up into a trailer, so long as there is nowhere else to go, so long as they can see through it, and so long as the dominant cow isn't already in the trailer first, and calves will jump right in behind the mother.

The trailer can be backed up to the head-bale, or into the side gate of a crush, or you can use a makeshift gate race, so long as the gates are solidly secured with pickets both sides and both ends. The trailer should be ready to roll as soon as stock are loaded, to avoid any bullying.

Hope the cows have co-operated by now anyway.
Happy Xmas to all.
From Margaret Weir & Graham Beever

seacon dexters · Post by **seacon dexters** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:05 pm

Thanks for the advice everybody!! My uncle who helps is a commercial farmer and always wants to rush!! I will try your advice and see what happens!!

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Peter thornton · Post by **Peter thornton** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:32 am

Just a few more thoughts:

Try not to load against a deadline. The cattle will pick up your stress and be more difficult.

We always load from a building. We have a small shippon that is easy to get them into (via a couple of gates and a yard) and we then back the trailer up to that. We find this much easier than loading from a field or from a yard.

If you have to load from a yard then try to make sure that the rest of the herd are beyond, rather than behind, the trailer.

As has been said: Halter train your calves (or at least get them to accept a halter without too much fuss). I do it at weaning, earlier is probably better depending on your situation.

And finally, if you're new to Dexters then there's enough around that you don't need to buy awkward ones!

oliver1921 · Post by **oliver1921** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:56 am

I recently bought a clip on nose ring which with gentle easing - not pulling - enabled us to get a couply of really stubborn animals in. I do agree with the other advice - a couple of friendly cows are usefull but with the nosering you can hold the one you want to keep in while releasing the others

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:15 pm

My livestock hauler always gets a kick out of loading my Dexters. I slip a halter on the steer and lead him to the trailer then with a little pushing from the back, we get him to step up (no ramps on most "livestock" trailers) and in. Sometimes it's a good 18" up but of course, Dexters are dexterious!

I sure agree about the halter training, even the steers. I even train some of my Shetland sheep (go ahead and laugh) :p which pays in spades if some get out and all I have to do is walk up to one and slip a halter on and lead the flock back. Calm animals are so much nicer and safer to be around.