Reinstate Elected Council - Resignation

[welshdexterboy]

Cool head Clive with offers like that. What I fail to see with Chris is he keeps shouting for elections but you need someone to arrange all this. The Steering Committee are not a long term entity as far as I know so just give them five minutes peace to get things sorted please.

[Peter thornton]

I don't want elections at the moment, because I wouldn't know who to vote for. What I want is for the steering committee to get the business side of things onto an even keel and then to identify the choices that we must make (in order to move forward) and to put these choices to the membership. Next I want elections in which I can identify which people are most likely to take the society forward in the way that I wish it to go.

As far as I know, this is what the steering committee is planning to do. I don't know the steering committee that well but I have been reading their posts for some time and feel that I know them better than most of Council.

Perhaps we wouldn't have planned to be here in ideal circumstances but seeing as we are here, at this point can we all stop hassling them and give them some time and space!

JUst think for a moment: What would happen if they were not prepared to do that which they do? I know that I haven't time to drop everything and run the Society. This is a real crisis and we have some committed people in place who are well aware of how to observe the proprieties and preserve the democratic basis of our Society.

So please, lets help them pull us out of this mess.

[Tricky]

I don't want elections at the moment, because I wouldn't know who to vote for. What I want is for the steering committee to get the business side of things onto an even keel and then to identify the choices that we must make (in order to move forward) and to put these choices to the membership. Next I want elections in which I can identify which people are most likely to take the society forward in the way that I wish it to go.

As far as I know, this is what the steering committee is planning to do. I don't know the steering committee that well but I have been reading their posts for some time and feel that I know them better than most of Council.

Perhaps we wouldn't have planned to be here in ideal circumstances but seeing as we are here, at this point can we all stop hassling them and give them some time and space!

JUst think for a moment: What would happen if they were not prepared to do that which they do? I know that I haven't time to drop everything and run the Society. This is a real crisis and we have some committed people in place who are well aware of how to observe the proprieties and preserve the democratic basis of our Society.

So please, lets help them pull us out of this mess.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Chris Downward]

Broomcroft
No I do not want the steering group to stand down, what I want is for them to run the day to day things the society does and organise elections. What I hear is more on the lines on constitutional change and changing the way the society does things. That surely is for a council to decide.
Peter
I agree with you on most of what you say--at the moment I feel that we really don't have much of a society left--nobody interested in standing for election, a steering group "press ganged" into running things, division upon division in the membership----perhaps you are right in letting a steering group run things, they seem to be the only people interested. For the DCS to really work then it must be the membership that supports it, I don't see that at the moment. The basis for any group leadership to be effective/survive is support from the group, at the moment I would guess that the "average member"--if there is such a thing--doesn't really care---it is this that has to change.
Suggestions as to how this should be done I would be delighted to give to an elected body, otherwise I feel rightly or wrongly that I am in danger of supporting one faction or another.
I wish the steering group well and thank them for running things at the moment--I also wish them to start the canvassing for those who wish to stand for election now.
I think I shall now forget the DCS for a while and see what happens.
Chris

[justmalc]

What "Rutherford" so calmly chooses to ignore is that the meeting on November 1st was not scheduled to be one at which members could contribute. Contributors on this page recognised that fact before the meeting and yet still a selected mob descended on council and hijacked the meeting.

Some specific questions.

1. The secretary at the meeting has stated that she was told by Felicity Thomson not to minute anything contentious. Is this true?

2. Felicity has stted that she checked that people attending to protest were members. If this is the case then why weren't ALL members contacted by Felicity to invite them to attend and contribute.

3. I understand that Yvonne's husband attended the meeting. Is he a member?

4. The steering group of 4 co-opted Mark and "Broomcroft". Members who have telephoned me recently have said that they are reluctant to engage in open opposition because (a) this page is run by Mark and (b) they want to at some stage sell meat through Broomcroft's page and don't want to sour relationships.

5. Dop the steering group accept that Council members had been advised not to discuss Yvonne's resignation?

6. I am interested - this (brilliant) site represents about 25% of membership. 75% don't even know this debate is going on. Were all members who attended to oppose Council members of this site? If so, I cannot think that this sort of rabble rousing was one of Mark's objectives.


The Council had just been elected. The wider membership were not given the opportunity to comment at the meeting - only a selected groupo. Council were not in a position to state their case.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH MEMBERS OF THE STEERING GROUP except that you are un-elected. I ask that yoiu stand down, reinstate the elected council and WORK WITH THEM on a new constitution. The society belongs to 1200/1300 members, not to those who use this site and, through this site have quicker access to information and colleagues which, in this instance, I feel has been regrettably misused.

We are a small group, I believe enough relationships have been soured and, with regional groups now threatening legal action and involvement of the Charity Commissioners I feel that we should step back with the elected Council taking forward an open and comprehensive review of all constitutional issues.

[rodmet]

Hi Chris, We have a Council it consists of one elected member and 3 coopted members. The current Council was brought into being by the old Council during their private meeting and on doing so chose to resign and not stand for election again for another 2 years.

I think the old Council deserves the highest praise for the way they acted throughout the day on Nov 1st and it is against the very spirit of their approach to try in some way to put pressure on for them to come back.

I along with most of the Society want to see the Steering Group carry out their care-taker role to the best of their ability, at the same time prepare for an early EGM and organise elections as quickly as possible. Please give them space and understanding to carry out what is no easy task.

[Martin]

In answer to your questions justmalc,
1, I cannot comment because I honestly do not know (I heard nothing to suggest this).
2, Nobody was invited, I for one felt I needed answers and chose to attend, I informed the office that I would be there. (every member has the right to attend Council meetings)
3, Yvonnes husband was at the meeting, yes he is a member.
4, Both Clive and Mark have been put into difficult positions since the steering committee ASKED FOR THEIR HELP! We needed a Quorum of 5 members to be able to abide by the Constitution, Because of Clive's business background and Mark's excelent efforts with this site we believed that they would be ideal candidates. Maybe we where wrong and have put them in awkward positions.
5,Yes.
6, I cannot comment as most people there I did not know or speak to for any length of time. My intentions for attending where not to oppose Council but to try and get an insight as to what was going on.

As for a selected group, I was not selected I chose to attend as is my right as a member of the Society, the same rights as you have.
If you had been following developments on this site you would have had the same opportunity to attend as the topic about the Secretary's resignation was started around the 22nd of October (it may have been earlier but a glitch on the site wiped some of the posts).

Martin. Medway Valley Dexters.

[Chris Downward]

I think the point with all this discussion and the only way to silence critics of whatever side is to hold as a matter of urgency elections----everything else follows afterwards. If as many people suggest nobody will stand then we don't have a society and we start again. I don't think this will happen, the steering group has agreed to run things which is great but we have put them in an impossible position if we are asking them to do something which in truth only an elected group should do. The only way forward is a letter to everybody saying "we need to hold elections these are the rules let us have your name and what you think about Dexters etc " Then let an elected council produce something for us to vote on--there is no rush, we just need to get things right but at least we are doing it the correct way.
If we don't do this I can forsee lots of unhappy people, unending DCS politics and large splits in the society which I don't believe anybody wants.
We need a society that is simple, that doesn't give itself enormous tasks which it has no chance of fulfilling, that is totally open in all respects and most importantly has the support of the membership.
If we have 12 or 7 people on the council it really doesn't matter, what matters is that it works--this forum is great but it only represents a small portion of the society. We have to persuade members that DCS is worth belonging to and that there is something in it for them and there animals--if not it won't matter how many people we have on council or what the way forward is.
Lets see who will stand for elections and what they want to stand for.
Chris

[Broomcroft]

To sum up.

1. We all want the SC to hold the fort which is primarily why they were asked to do?

2. We all want elections ASAP do we not?

So where are the differences except for Malcom wanting to consider the old council being re-instated, or am I missing something? Or is it that gathering ideas for revised rules a problem?

[Rutherford]

Justmac, I happen not to have been one of the ‘selected mob’. I am unfortunately not in a position to travel anywhere, but I do happen to be someone who has been watching on the sidelines for several years, and probably have more knowledge than most of what has actually been happening, and most of the people involved.
Anyone of the readers of these columns could have decided to attend the Council meeting; the only criterion was that they should be bona fide members of DCS. They were not specially invited. Mostly they were members who had had good service from Yvonne and were troubled by her resignation. The critics of the present situation appear to be folks who did not attend, and are working on hearsay.
It is regrettable that only a small number have access to these columns, and I know the committee have as priority trying to find a means of better communication. Postage could easily bankrupt the Society, if not kept in hand.
Critics of the steering committee seem to lose sight of the fact that it was the members of the elected Council that put the committee place. If you are telling me that some of those Council members are now regretting their decision, I would suggest it points to their lack of ability to do their job. I believe you should be prepared to stick to a decision once made. That decision was made behind closed doors with none of ‘the mob’ present.
I find your fourth point in very poor taste, and am surprised that you see fit to pass on such comments. I hasten to add that I don’t sell meat, but admire Clive for doing a much needed and brilliant job in this direction.

Beryl (Woodmagic)

[Chris Downward]

Broomcroft
Totally agree, very well put. Not interested in old councils being reinstated--they resigned, that's it. I think though we should keep a steering group out of future changes that may or may not take place, they have a big enough job just running the DCS.
As to gathering ideas again an excellent idea but lets not have it associated with the steering group, lets keep it to individuals opinions otherwise we will have endless DCS politics---I just want a simple working society with the aim of looking after the interests of the animals.
This can't be too difficult to achieve surely.
Rutherford
I think you have hit some of the points that worry us all--when I read of "closed door meetings" and lack of communication and also "what has been happening"--it makes me wonder who has been running the DCS--It does though highlight the need for openness and increased communication--lets have open elections as soon as possible and then we can ask members how they want to change things--maybe the majority don't want any change, if so then that is how it is, it doesn't suit me but I think we need to get away from internal politics and just get back to having a society that works.
Chris

[welshdexterboy]

We are just going around and around the same old ground time and time again. Chris wants elections everyone else wants elections the trouble is you need someone to arrange them and as only the secretary-- who by the way is working a sort of notice--and the steering committee are there who else can do it.

Justmalc wants the old boys back because the lynch mob drove them out of town. Then leave them to sort out the election ---apparently there will be no rush because they will be doing themselves, or the majority at least, out of a job. What did one person say on this site somewhere, the Elite Bull Scheme 6 years in the making and still needed some refinement? Leave the S/C to get things sorted then the elections will come and we can all vote.

People who say this is only a small percentage of the membership have a point but if the O B had been on the ball this would be on the DCS site and perhaps available to those who don't follow links from the DCS page. But you have to wonder why they don't.

and finally What do you want from the Demi gods on Council
1 somewhere to register our stock
2 somewhere to advertise our stock to a specific audience
3 a little financial help with our stands around our local shows and

A MERRY PEACEFUL CHRISTMAS GOODWILL to ALL DEXTER- KEEPERS

[justmalc]

"Rutherford"

Sorry but you completely miss the point. You and others are accepting Yvonne's resignation letter as "gospel". I do not know if her accuisations are true. NOR DO YOU. Those attending on the 1st do not know either.

I would prefer the Council to be reinstated and the steering group to take forward the task of reviewing the constitution.

Nothing more is to be gained by these exchanges I am afraid. My position is clear. We must all now wait for the intervention of the Charity Commissioners and whatever legal challenges are to follow if news from the regions is to be believed.


Best wishes,

Malcolm Robinson.

[Jo Kemp]

There is no doubt in my mind at all.
Council members had to give 2 months notice of resignation ... this was obviously included in the articles to avoid the debacle we find ourselves in now.
I therefore say that the Council members are still 'de jure' if not 'de facto' in charge.
I remind everyone that the DCS is a company and a charity so if we do not get back to the position held on 31st October then we are in breach of the conditions of these organisations.

The meeting of 1st Nov was not an open meeting (officially) therefore the vast majority of the membership could not either be present nor send a letter putting their opinions.
Many of us live hundreds of miles away from Stoneleigh and are equal in status to those in the central belt.

Yes Clive, I answer your question to Chris, I would like you all to resign and return to the pre 1st Nov. state. The Council would then reconvene and, I hope, decide to work together, putting aside any personal issues.
As adults we should be able to work with people whose ideas etc. are different to our own. I know the members of council who seem to be in the firing line and I hold ALL of them in high esteem.

Members of the steering committee are acting in good faith but erroneously
Jo

[Rutherford]

Members are entitled to be present at Council meetings, but not allowed to participate. According to the published minutes, the decisions taken by council were taken after the membership withdrew. Once minutes have been published, further discussion on that subject cannot be brought up again for six months
Since the steering committee and its components were proposed by Ken Hobbs and seconded by Mary Kay are you sure, those of you that are asking them to come back, that they would want to? I don’t understand the reluctance to accept the decisions taken by the elected Council, while arguing about democracy.
{Many of us live hundreds of miles away from Stoneleigh and are equal in status to those in the central belt.}
Representation throughout the country is something dear to my heart, and I know the Committee have it on their agenda, please give them time and space to get on with the job that the past Council entrusted them to do

Beryl (Woodmagic)