No of Dexters

[Broomcroft]

Beryl - In a survey of those on DBO, it accounted for approx 3200-3500 head of Dexters, we think mainly pure (that question is something that was not asked). I can think of just a few herds in the Midlands that would probably total 1000 or near enough total head. So if 4800 was correct it would mean that the vast majority of Dexters were on DBO, which I feel is not the case or anywhere near it yet. DBO herds produce about 100,000 KG's of beef (deadweight) p.a.

The head figures includes all steers, calves, non-registered and crosses (not many I think) etc. Hope my figures are correct, I think they are.

Could DCS just give a figure of registered? I tried the online pedigree book for a search for everything but it fell over with the volume.

[Woodmagic]

This problem came up a couple of years ago and it wasn’t possible to come up with a very precise figure. I have just done a rough count of the 2005 Herd Book and come up with a little over 5,000. That would be all registered females and bulls, but would not include the unregistered males, and would not include the members who did not send in their returns. The BCMS figures are likely to be the most accurate. Maybe you have a greater following than you appreciated!

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Almost every breed of livestock has a small nucleus of registered stock and a much larger number of unregistered. As the Dexter has emerged from the rare to much more numerous, the proportion of unregistered has been rising probably in a much larger proportion than many have appreciated. It is a healthy sign of a popular breed, not something to be deprecated as we look at means to have every single Dexter registered and create an atmosphere looking down on those with unregistered stock. As long as the number of REGISTERED purebreds remains high enough the non registration of others is nothing to worry about. In most breeds large herds will be composed of some registered and some unregistered, again nothing to worry about.

One key point of course is that the purchaser of any animal, whether new to the business or not, has to realise the difference between cross, pure, pedigree and registered.

I think our numbers could well be much larger than many of us would have thought.

Duncan

[Jo Kemp]

At the moment, registered animals do go for a better price usually. I saw a lovely dun heifer at Carlisle a few years ago and didn't bid - others were the same so she went for very little. The normal prices are low enough already so most people will register them I think

[Woodmagic]

The BCMS figures include non-pedigree; in 2005 the BCMS numbers for applications for Dexter passports were 4811 pure breds and 353 non-pedigrees,the latter are not a high proportion. Few live births are likely to occur without a passport application, and I feel they must supply the most accurate picture.

[Woodmagic]

Since most of your membership is likely to have one eye on the monetary angle, it would be very helpful to find out whether their animals are registered? This is something one cannot obtain from the BCMS figures, although doing a comparison between the Herd Book and BCMS numbers for 2005 gives a guestimate of around 4,000 registered out of the 5,000. I do feel when considering the viability of the breed, only the breeding animals should be counted. My real worry is that as times become harder, and the number registered continues to fall, the Society is likely to find finance an increasing problem, there is a limit to which a smaller and smaller base can afford to carry the rest.

[Broomcroft]

I have asked DCS if they can tell us how many live registered Dexters there are. Meaning pedigree ones. A lot of people prefer to register because if they get TB the compensation is much better I understand. I don't think birth-notified helps at all.

Correction - the 100,000 KG p.a. of Dexter Beef produced by DBO listed people is final meat/boned out/supplied to customers, it is NOT deadweight. The total deadweight would be around 174,000 KG p.a.

[Broomcroft]

DCS have confirmed the following figures for pedigree Dexters in the UK:

Males.........5,992 (of which 3,685 birth notified only)
Females....17,299
Castrates.......756

They point out that these figures are only as accurate as the information and if they haven't been advised of a death etc then it won't be in the figures.

Bearing in mind different dates etc it agrees very, very roughly with BCMS figure of approx 22,000 in total, including crosses.

[Woodmagic]

Defra seems to have come up with variety of numbers.
The FAO report on world resources gives a figure of 3,000.
Animal health - 22,000.
Cattle preservation - Bulls 1160, Cows - 9112.
BCMS - 4811 pure bred and 353 non-pedigree births. I still maintain this is likely to be the most reliable guide as to the number of breeding cows.
I have just checked my Grass Roots listing and I can identify out of the 129 cows -12 are probably dead, of the 24 bulls - 11 again are likely to be dead.
I would still be interested to know how many of your DBO member’s animals are registered. I wouldn’t be too certain of high compensation for pedigree, the Govt. is trying to wriggle out of that.

[Penny]

As A DBO member, I can confirm that I have only one unregistered cow and all the rest are pedigree. Some of these pedigree females will still go into the "beef Chain" as only the best are retained for breeding, but I like to see how they develop first, so register everything unless it is below breed standard. I may have a beef business, but still aim to produce good show quality animals too. It does not have to be one or the other, although I accept that it is shorts that do best in the show ring sadly.
I think you will find that most DBO members have a good percentage of pedigree stock. It is those who do not involve themselves with either the DCS or DBO who may have the majority of unregistered.

[Woodmagic]

Many thanks Penny, it is useful to have the assurance, I suspect you are correct that the majority of non-pedigree are outside the organisations. It wasn’t till two years ago, when the DCS was asked the by NCBA to supply figures for the international census, I realised how difficult it was to come up with a satisfactory answer. Since very few live animals today do not have a passport, I think BCMS is likely to remain the only reliable figure.

[wagra dexters]

Some people here will not fill out their herd returns, but most will, and that will give a good idea of the current national herd size.
Annual herd returns are an essential part of any breed society as only live, actively breeding, registered stock have any relevance or significance when talking herd size and stud stock numbers.

[Broomcroft]

So how many Dexters are then in Australia Margaret? Your best guess?

[Inger]

We don't actually collect herd returns. The Herd Registrar just keeps track of totals of how many of each grade of Dexter cows and bulls there are and the yearly calf registrations. He asks us to inform him of when any animal dies, so he can keep the records accurate.

[Woodmagic]

Unfortunately, it is true that some members do not return their forms. However, the largest discrepancy undoubtedly arises with those whose membership lapses, and they have no interest in telling the society what has happened to their animals. The 23 Woodmagic that I quote are all ones I have sold, and I have no means of verifying whether they are still alive, except their age suggests they are not. In other herds I have seen bulls of 30 years, and one herd lists 90 although I know the herd was completely dispersed and is probably largely dead. The Herd book is more reliable, since that is a listing of the current Herd returns.