Probably a daft question
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
Whilst it may be possible to analyse DNA and say "this looks like a Dexter" that does not tell us who the parents were, essential for pedigree recording - so we would need to go for parentage checks - again quite easy to do but costs a lot more than the £10 to register a heifer - more like £100 if the calf, and both parents, need done. Some breed societies eg clydesdale horse society take hair from every foal being registered - probably because they have had a lot of doubtful cases in the past.
Genes identifying a breed can be used to proove origin of beef for breed specific schemes - Welsh Blacks or Anguses can do this i think.
Duncan
Genes identifying a breed can be used to proove origin of beef for breed specific schemes - Welsh Blacks or Anguses can do this i think.
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
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Leanne George
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:56 am
I would like to see all dexters DNA as this way we would know the parentage was correct, as an example I sold a heifer last year and the service certificate showed she had run with the bull for x to y however when she calved this did not correspond with the dates I had given, hower I had noted in my diaryy that my other bull had visited and was following a cow on that date, please note the heifer showed no sign of being served by this bull, which is most unusual as he is my senior bull and I never run him with heifers, now because the people phoned me to say she had calved and we both quiried the date, I was able to supply them with the correct service certificate. However if they had not noticed I wonder if the society would have quired this when entering the calf's details onto the system. Does anyone know the answer to this one.
Ann
Ann
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
I will be brave as usual and try to answer various points on this though please bear in mind I am not now on Council so am quite happy to be corrected by any who know better. Whilst it would be good to have DNA confirmation of parentage for every registered calf I think it is true to say that the lower values of may UK dexters does not justify the expense - it could be done but would put registration of many out of the question then we would be unhappy that there were so many not being registered. The service certificate on the back of the birth notification form was introduced during my time on Council and it was put there because very often the forms were sent in without any certificate. A certificate is required where the bull is not in the same herd as the calf has been born. At the end of the day without full DNA confirmation a few mistakes will occur - but they should be minimum.
I have the impression that the market value of dexters in Aus is greater but I stant to be corrected .
Duncan
I have the impression that the market value of dexters in Aus is greater but I stant to be corrected .
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
I'll just throw my tuppence worth in:
I can see that the cost of DNA PV is expensive... I myself have several registerable females which I am seriously thinking may not even get into the herdbook ... it becomes quite a pain - particularly since our association has a late fee (which is currently waived thank goodness!) but normaly you have until they are 18mnths to register otherwise it costs you a late fee of $100.00 ...for me I would rather wait to see if the female is worth registering (milking traits etc) until after she has at least calved once ... twice would be better ... I could register and sell any old thing like some breeders do but I am not interested in having a stud with that reputation! ... anyway getting back on topic ...add this $100.00 onto a registration process that costs you around $50.00 for the DNA and then around $40.00 for the registration and you have an animal that you need to recoup at least $100.00 for registration expenses... add this into a grading up process and to get a graded up PB you are looking at $400.00 worth.
But truly I think that the DNA is neccessary ... for various reasons which I think everyone already knows ...and it adds to the crediblity of the breed in our country ...and I think from an Australian perspective (as far as importing genetics from overseas) it would add to our sense of mind when we are paying $100.00 per straw for those genetics if we were sure they were as they were advertised.
As to the value of Dexter here in Aus ...mmm that one is not as easy to answer as it might be. It depends on a great many things but sometimes PB's from show winning stock can reach prices around the $10,000.00 ...but they are rare now (in the 90's some of the prices were $30,000.00)... a normal price for a good female is around the $5,000.00 with bulls being around the $2,000.00... but you can pick up PB's for as little as $1,000.00... whereas the grades vary depending on where you are in Australia and what foundations they come from and as with all things it depends on demand and supply... but once again I do not think we would be getting any where near that prices we get if there was not the DNA PVing. Because it is a case of buying a 'Pig in a Poke' without that assurance of pedigree.
All the best
Kathleen.
I can see that the cost of DNA PV is expensive... I myself have several registerable females which I am seriously thinking may not even get into the herdbook ... it becomes quite a pain - particularly since our association has a late fee (which is currently waived thank goodness!) but normaly you have until they are 18mnths to register otherwise it costs you a late fee of $100.00 ...for me I would rather wait to see if the female is worth registering (milking traits etc) until after she has at least calved once ... twice would be better ... I could register and sell any old thing like some breeders do but I am not interested in having a stud with that reputation! ... anyway getting back on topic ...add this $100.00 onto a registration process that costs you around $50.00 for the DNA and then around $40.00 for the registration and you have an animal that you need to recoup at least $100.00 for registration expenses... add this into a grading up process and to get a graded up PB you are looking at $400.00 worth.
But truly I think that the DNA is neccessary ... for various reasons which I think everyone already knows ...and it adds to the crediblity of the breed in our country ...and I think from an Australian perspective (as far as importing genetics from overseas) it would add to our sense of mind when we are paying $100.00 per straw for those genetics if we were sure they were as they were advertised.
As to the value of Dexter here in Aus ...mmm that one is not as easy to answer as it might be. It depends on a great many things but sometimes PB's from show winning stock can reach prices around the $10,000.00 ...but they are rare now (in the 90's some of the prices were $30,000.00)... a normal price for a good female is around the $5,000.00 with bulls being around the $2,000.00... but you can pick up PB's for as little as $1,000.00... whereas the grades vary depending on where you are in Australia and what foundations they come from and as with all things it depends on demand and supply... but once again I do not think we would be getting any where near that prices we get if there was not the DNA PVing. Because it is a case of buying a 'Pig in a Poke' without that assurance of pedigree.
All the best
Kathleen.
Hi Kathleen
It was really interesting to see the prices of Dexters are achieving elsewhere. Here they mostly seem linked to beef prices plus a bit. Even if we DNA'd everything I don't think they would reach your heady heights but I think something needs to be done to regularise things. There really is such a variation in registered Dexters. And although we all agree variety is the spice of life, if I bought a St Bernard dog unseen I would not expect a Greyhound to turn up. In our lovely little cows, who knows what might appear - with full registration documents! ???
It was really interesting to see the prices of Dexters are achieving elsewhere. Here they mostly seem linked to beef prices plus a bit. Even if we DNA'd everything I don't think they would reach your heady heights but I think something needs to be done to regularise things. There really is such a variation in registered Dexters. And although we all agree variety is the spice of life, if I bought a St Bernard dog unseen I would not expect a Greyhound to turn up. In our lovely little cows, who knows what might appear - with full registration documents! ???
Sylvia, we do not get as much for our Dexters, in our part of Australia, as Kathleen gets for hers. Ours tend to go by the beef rates also. Mind you I think for the larger studs it doesnt matter what they are trying to sell, comes down to WHO is selling the cow. ??? In Victoria you can buy a Dexter cow for between $500-$1000....we are still in drought which doesnt help the price either. 
Shazz :;):
Rosnasharn Farm
Rosnasharn Farm
I think I need to clarify a few things
The prices I was quoting are for PB's (non-graded) and are the prices that they tend to go for down around Brisbane etc... the maximum is what one of the animals from the 02 World Congress show was supposedly sold for the others are what most succesfull show studs (over all of Aus) sell for... its all got to do with 'packaging' and the conformation quality of the animals because no one with half a brain will pay any money for an animal that looks like a 'donkey' (or a brahman!)
I understand that in Victoria you can get cattle for next to nicks -as the saying goes- and I am led to believe that this is because the southern states have had the 'boom' time and are now in the decline. Personaly I think it is because the breed has run its 'pet' course ... that is to say that all the 'I want to have one of those mummy!' people have had a Dexter and have moved onto something else = the next big fad! (boar goats came before Dexters and Lammas before goats ...etc and pot bellied pigs are in there somewhere!)
This trend is also reflected in the membership figures which indicate that the only state that is 'growing' in membership is Qld. Basically the other states seem to loose as many old members as they pick up new ones each year... some even go backwards -statistically speaking- ... why this is? *shrug* personally I think it is because people with little cattle background have no-idea what they are getting into and when they find out (or find out what they have been sold is NOT what they had been led to believe it was -ethnically speaking- ) they get out quick and sell their cattle for whatever they can get! Add to this the fact that some breeders breed any old rubbish -and that is what they are in the bussiness of doing- and you have a situation that brings down the price. That is why the powers that be decided to close the herd book ...*smile* but as usual they got it backwards because the 'old rubbish' is still out there and there will always be those people that want to buy at bargain prices thinking that somehow their investment is going to bring in a big return.
As for my own stud ... I have never sold a registered grade female -so far- probably because breeders in my area would rather go and by grades from Brahman base for the 'cheap as chips' prices that they are worth. Basically I am not prepared to sell my females for less than they are worth because I can get that same bottom price for them as meat ... to be blunt: no-one will be getting my bloodlines for nothing because I only keep good quality grade females (dual purpose =>proven! Which are conformationaly correct and which conform to the standard of the breed) ... and I really I do not care much one way or the other if people buy from me because I went into Dexters as an alternative for Jersey's (which I never sold registered either and always managed to sell at good prices to people for house cows) ...the three reasons being that they are 'dual purpose' rather than straight dairy... there 'supposed' history which I have since found out it a 'crock' and the size which was the same as a Jersey in a longleg and smaller in a shortleg...
But anyway I seem to have wondered off the path again! :;): so I'd best go before I get lost in my own philisophical woods!
Kathleen
The prices I was quoting are for PB's (non-graded) and are the prices that they tend to go for down around Brisbane etc... the maximum is what one of the animals from the 02 World Congress show was supposedly sold for the others are what most succesfull show studs (over all of Aus) sell for... its all got to do with 'packaging' and the conformation quality of the animals because no one with half a brain will pay any money for an animal that looks like a 'donkey' (or a brahman!)
I understand that in Victoria you can get cattle for next to nicks -as the saying goes- and I am led to believe that this is because the southern states have had the 'boom' time and are now in the decline. Personaly I think it is because the breed has run its 'pet' course ... that is to say that all the 'I want to have one of those mummy!' people have had a Dexter and have moved onto something else = the next big fad! (boar goats came before Dexters and Lammas before goats ...etc and pot bellied pigs are in there somewhere!)
This trend is also reflected in the membership figures which indicate that the only state that is 'growing' in membership is Qld. Basically the other states seem to loose as many old members as they pick up new ones each year... some even go backwards -statistically speaking- ... why this is? *shrug* personally I think it is because people with little cattle background have no-idea what they are getting into and when they find out (or find out what they have been sold is NOT what they had been led to believe it was -ethnically speaking- ) they get out quick and sell their cattle for whatever they can get! Add to this the fact that some breeders breed any old rubbish -and that is what they are in the bussiness of doing- and you have a situation that brings down the price. That is why the powers that be decided to close the herd book ...*smile* but as usual they got it backwards because the 'old rubbish' is still out there and there will always be those people that want to buy at bargain prices thinking that somehow their investment is going to bring in a big return.
As for my own stud ... I have never sold a registered grade female -so far- probably because breeders in my area would rather go and by grades from Brahman base for the 'cheap as chips' prices that they are worth. Basically I am not prepared to sell my females for less than they are worth because I can get that same bottom price for them as meat ... to be blunt: no-one will be getting my bloodlines for nothing because I only keep good quality grade females (dual purpose =>proven! Which are conformationaly correct and which conform to the standard of the breed) ... and I really I do not care much one way or the other if people buy from me because I went into Dexters as an alternative for Jersey's (which I never sold registered either and always managed to sell at good prices to people for house cows) ...the three reasons being that they are 'dual purpose' rather than straight dairy... there 'supposed' history which I have since found out it a 'crock' and the size which was the same as a Jersey in a longleg and smaller in a shortleg...
But anyway I seem to have wondered off the path again! :;): so I'd best go before I get lost in my own philisophical woods!
Kathleen