Check out this calf

Kirk- Cascade Herd US · Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:50 pm

I just thought I'd test my ability to take and post pictures. What do you think of this little 60 day old bull calf (Cascade's Constellation) so far? He's polled and has a 50% chance of being homozygous (two polled genes). He's heavily linebred to Saltaire Platinum, with a dose of Cornahir Outlaw and he's out of our best dam who's out of an excellent Platinum daughter.

Kirk

Cascade Herd

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:24 am

Nice calf Kirk

wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:20 am

Kirk, lovely calf, but too rangy for a Dexter. We have females by both Llannfairs Finnigan and Hiyu Salty Rambler, and they were all the same, even though some are out of Hedgehog cows. They have deepened and lengthened considerably since they were 2 months old.
I would like to see a photo of your fellow at weaning, but with a height comparison, and on bare ground.
Is there a gene test for homozygous poll yet?

Kirk- Cascade Herd US · Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:18 am

wagra dexters wrote:Kirk, lovely calf, but too rangy for a Dexter. We have females by both Llannfairs Finnigan and Hiyu Salty Rambler, and they were all the same, even though some are out of Hedgehog cows. They have deepened and lengthened considerably since they were 2 months old.
I would like to see a photo of your fellow at weaning, but with a height comparison, and on bare ground.
Is there a gene test for homozygous poll yet?

You have a good eye and your good feedback is greatly appreciated. I agree that his lack of body depth is the biggest concern so far. His full sister from last year filled out pretty nicely. The good news is that the dam has a bit of a lack of depth, yet she has fine muscle, great milk, and is a very easy keeper - keeping excellent condition on poor late-season grass while raising a thick healthy calf. She is pretty glamorous in all seasons.

There isn't a direct test for homozygous polledness yet, but there is a round-about way of testing for markers. It's rather involved and you have to have a lot of genetics testing done on the ancestors. The sire and dam of this little guy both were tested by the breeders, the dam is hetero (1 polled gene) and the sire tested homo (we purchased him based on that test showing he likely had two genes). He's had 16 polled out of 16 total calves so far, bred on mostly genetically horned cows, so homozygous he is.

I'm looking into the testing process as I have several possible homozygous calves that I would like to test.

Kirk

PS. Would love to see some more Dexter photos and discussions on conformation..... Do any of you look at the discussions on cattletoday.com? It's very enlightening (and brutal).

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:09 pm

I feel I've been set up :;):. You said look at this calf Kirk and no-one replied, so I said how nice it was to make you feel good! :D. If you guys in America and Australia wonder why you're getting responses of such poor quality as this one, it's raining here in the UK, solid, almost every day, we can do nothing and it's the height of summer.

Carol K · Post by **Carol K** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:47 pm

Kirk,
for a 60 day old bull calf, he's very nice. He also has "presence", I don't think all bulls have that, some have it and know how to use it, not sure if you all know what I mean. Basically some strut their stuff and others just have no stuff to strut! LOL. He looks quite tall, but that could be the pic. Depth will come, he's very young. It would be a fun project to show us some pics in 6 months and 12 months just so we can see how he has progressed. Did you take any pics from the rear or the front to show his width?

Carol

Carol K · Post by **Carol K** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:59 pm

Forgot to add, he doesn't have a clean sheath (umbilical hernia?), that seems to be a common thing in the States. It seems to be getting worse here. Does anyone know if that is a hereditary problem, I'm guessing it must be. I know it was one of the things that Judge Nancy Edge from New Zealand commented on at the AGM in 2005 (?).

Carol

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:47 pm

He does look good, but as someone else has said a bit "rangy", perhaps a bit shallow in the body but it is so hard to be sure from one photo. He does look a bit weak in bottom jaw but I have got in bother saying that about a photo before.

On the underline, I have noticed that most Dexters have quite a bit of loose skin around the umbilicus, not in any way a hernia, and this can persist right almost to maturity, so very difficult to say much about it from a photo - it needs hands on to assess what we are looking at.

I think it is very difficult to judge how a calf will turn out when so young, they can go through many changes looking better and worse alternately, though it may be possible to spot faults which will not improve.

Overall this looks a good calf to me but he needs more depth of body in relation to leg length, but this may come as he matures. Is he a mix of true red and wild red?

Duncan

Kirk- Cascade Herd US · Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:58 pm

All of your excellent and valuable feedback is exactly what I was looking for. He is an E+/e from an e/e sire and an ED/E+ dam. Up close and in person, his navel area appears to be normal, healthy and quite average for our calves and the comment made me think "aren't they all supposed to look that way?", I'm pretty certain it's just loose skin, I'll have to do some research on that subject - perhaps it's more prominent in certain lines. Also, I'll have to pay attention to his lower jaw to see if it does have weakness, or if it was just the photo.

I'll get some additional photos taken of different views and I like the idea of posting more as he grows. As was so brilliantly pointed out, he has incredible princely presence and that's what prompted me to post the photo.

Thanks!
Kirk

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:06 pm

He does have a certain expression about him, quite the little nobleman. I have finally got a polled bull calf and he's red but I don't think any of you would think much of him. All my Dexters are on the large side and quite leggy. The girls have nice udders, good toplines, nice temperaments, good feet and do a good job with their calves. No one shows Dexters here and very few care about the finer points of conformation. What a backwater! Well, I am using Woodmagic breeding now so will see if that shortens up any of the calves. :O

wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:28 am

Kathy, an interview of one of the huge meat breeders is written up in our latest Cattle Country magazine. The line that touched me was his advice that to change a herd, use extreme bulls, and work on one aspect at a time.

When you say you are using Woodmagic, I wonder if it is actually Hedgehog you are using, or lines from the earlier imports to Canada. The earlier lines do not have the same impact as Hedgehog, because they are not as extreme, given that some have up to a quarter Doesmead background.

We are using the dun bulls, Cranworth Samson, & Chieftain (Cluny/Mourning Dove) this season, on the 'Wm' section of the herd, but will go back to Hedgehog when the type deviates too much again.

The 'Red&red' section of the herd looks like a different species, but should start coming together in the next few calf drops. Always something interesting to look forward to!

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:42 am

I'll be using Trillium Cluny or Aldebaran Priapus.