I can not leave without commenting:
Duncan MacIntyre: "There are quite a few instances of "bulldogs"recorded to long legged animals."
Yes and we now know about PHA.
There are many reasons for 'anomalies' in calves born of 'pedigree' cattle - but when all is said and done it genetics - and genetics don't lie - just the people who play around with them.
What astounds me is the lengths people will go to to protect certain breeders and bloodlines - I was told EMPHATICALLY that PHA could not come from such-and-such herd ... and then the DNA testing lead straight there ... then there was all this balderdash about exhuming the cow and testing her for PHA - to which I said "Well they better be able to prove genetically that its the cow they claim it is and the parentage it came from!"
And some of the comments on this thread have been of the same ilk - turning the conversation personal - demonizing the person discussing/questioning the WM bloodlines.
The WM acolytes I think doth protest too much ... or is it more that they have a financial interest in the WM bloodlines and the BR way of breeding Dexters ... an attachment to the faery tale about WM cattle being the only pure Dexter cattle left in the world - a miraculous throw back to the Keltic coos that once inhabited Ireland with the Kerry BUT weren't Dwarf Kerry ... Gah!
First return of Dexters to Ireland
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Tim Watson
- Posts: 197
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Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
I am not really sure what this thread is all about any more and have therefore decided that all the contributors are far more intelligent than I!
What I do know is that my Dexters are the best looking, best behaved and most perfect specimens of the breed......far better than everyone elses.
What I do know is that my Dexters are the best looking, best behaved and most perfect specimens of the breed......far better than everyone elses.
Tim
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Broomcroft
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- Contact:
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
You must be on the take Tim 
. Or maybe you are like me, one of those daft people who think that Woodmagic breeding is good!
. Or maybe you are like me, one of those daft people who think that Woodmagic breeding is good!Clive
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
I do not think breeders who use WM bloodlines are 'daft'.
I am glad that Tim knows that his "Dexters are the best looking, best behaved and most perfect specimens of the breed......far better than everyone elses." Unfortunately for me - I know the type I want ... but the genetics are pesky and uncooperative 
I am glad that Tim knows that his "Dexters are the best looking, best behaved and most perfect specimens of the breed......far better than everyone elses."
Unfortunately for me - I know the type I want ... but the genetics are pesky and uncooperative Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
After all the comments 'The Cardiff Project' is sitting on the DCS website available for download from Society news. I was looking for something else. Maybe this has been publicised somewhere else but I had not heard.
Ian
Ian
Joan and Ian Simpson
Pennielea Farm
Glenavy
Co Antrim
Pennielea Farm
Glenavy
Co Antrim
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
Kathleen,
apologies for the delay in responding. I was waiting to get some photos of red Kerry cattle. The two below are samples. I will open a new thread on colour shortly and post more photos.
Regarding polling the article on the Simmental cattle society gives a good explanation of how the genes interact. Here is the link again
http://www.britishsimmental.co.uk/resea ... dness.html
I also asked Mike Sinnott about his research on polling. His comments were:
Scurs are often mistaken for horns , scur polled bulls are mistaken for true polled bulls. In Dexter the incidence of polling is very high given the few proposed sources . The situation became pronounced after the second world war. If polling in Dexters had come mainly from introgression of Aberdeen Angus then we would expect true polling ! but scur polling is more common ! what was the source ? It is worth mentioning that a third type of polling occurs in cattle of Zebu origin. Dwarf Zebu cattle are often polled or have small aborted or malformed horns. Introgression of Zebu blood into the Dexter has been suggested many times and even before the breed left Ireland. The Zoological Soc. in Dublin crossed Dexter and dwarf Zebu for several years. Dwarf Zebu were once as popular as Dexters with the gentry of victorian times in England.
One of the last owners of a Golden Suffolk Dun herd was the Prince Duleep Singh an exile from India with a great interest in cattle. It is known that he tried out breeding the suffolks because of inbreeding depression problems . Robert Wallace writting in 1923 gives an interesting account and copies a letter from the Prince.
This is the extract from Wallace's book
A short account, written in October 1907, by Prince Frederick Duleep Singh, of the "herd of Suffolk Dun-Polled cattle, afterwards the property of Arthur Wakerley, Esq., of Gedding Hall, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk": —
These cattle were, for a considerable though undetermined period, kept at Riddlesworth near Thetford, Norfolk, which is on the borders of Suffolk. No record of their early history or breeding seems to have been preserved, but the late Sir Thomas Thornhill, Bart., of Riddlesworth— whose grandfather purchased Riddlesworth about 1803 — informed me that as far as he knew they "had always been there, and were the original breed of the country." It is perhaps only a curious coincidence that the ancient family of de Riddlesworth, who took their name from this place and lived there until about 1450, should have borne, for their arms, a golden bull on a green shield ("vert, a bull passant, or"), "gold" being the shade which describes the colour of this breed better than "Dun." The only other fact that I remember Sir Thomas telling me was that a slight brindling was usually the sign of a good cow and typical of the old breed. This brindling is shown in the water-colour drawing, dated 1813, of a bullock bred by a tenant on the Riddlesworth estate (which picture I had the good fortune ro come across about 1898, in the possession of a descendant of the breeder of the animal, and which has since passed with the herd). At the sale of the Riddlesworth estate in 1S90 the herd was dispersed. I do not know how many it consisted of then ; but some, if not all, were bought by R. E. Lofft, Esq., of Troston Hall, Suffolk, who took them to that place and did his best to keep the breed going, until he sold off all his farming stock in 1895. Not hearing of the sale until the day it took place, I was only able to secure, by telegram, a certain number of the Dun Polls, but 1 subsequently acquired the remainder from Mr Garrett Taylor and another person. Even then the total number which 1 could muster was 6 cows and heifers and i bull. These I kept at Hockwold Hall, Norfolk, where I was then residing, until 1898, when I removed them to Old Buckenham Hall in the same county. They remained there until April 1902, when I sold the whole herd, increased by then to 14 head (which included 6 cows, 4 heifers, i heifer-calf, i bull-calf, and 2 bulls), to Lord Iveagh, K.P., of Elveden, Suffolk. Lord Iveagh only kept them until the end of 1904, when he informed me that he was anxious to dispose of them, and I was then fortunate enough to hear of a purchaser for him in the person of Arthur Wakerley, Esq., of Leicester and of Gedding Hall, Sufifolk, who is the present owner of the herd. The numbers had now increased to ii cows and heifers, 2 heifercalves, 6 bull calves, and 3 bulls, making a total of 22. Mr Wakerley took over the entire herd except, perhaps, some of the bull calves. It will be noticed how large a number of
bull calves were born from 1902 to 1904. This disproportion between the number of male and female calves dropped, and a tendency to abortion, were two of the chief difficulties I had to contend with during the period of over seven years in which the herd was in my hands. In order to try and perpetuate the breed, even at the expense of its purity— acting on the advice of Mr R. E. Lofift— I crossed the Dun Polls, both ways, with Red Polls. The latter being descended from the former, one felt it was the nearest cross that could be obtained without spoiling the type. The progeny of these were kept quite distinct from the pure Duns and were themselves re-crossed with the latter, the intention being to amalgamate, eventually, the two strains. This, however, it was never possible to carry into effect, as Lord Iveagh would only have the pure Duns — the cross-breds therefore were dispersed. It was interesting to note how prepotent the Dun breed was, even the first cross taking, in nearly every case I think, the colour and characteristics of the older race. With regard to colour I found they varied from a dark cream to a rich golden colour, and with ve7y occasionally the brindle markings which Sir Thomas considered typical. The milk was good and yielded a good deal more cream than ordinary Red Poll milk. The quantity of milk did not approach anything like the wonderful records spoken of by Arthur Young, but on the whole the cows were good milkers, some of them giving up to 8000 lb. in the course of the year. I kept the milk records carefully from 1898 to 1902.
Frederick Duleep Singh.
A few years later the pure breed ceased to exist.
Thanks for the above to Mike.
In my tracing of the origin of polling in Dexters the herd that comes up again and again is Woodmagic, most particularly those descended from Grinstead Plover . No one has offerred adequate explanation of the polling in Dexters ! I wonder how many have given thought to why Statenboro Polly had that name.... a clue she was half Aberdeen Angus perhaps
Mr MacIntyre told us in another thread on this discussion board that polling in his herd came from Vycanny Orphan Annie the daughter I understand of a Shorthorn (polled). Could he perhaps explain the inheritance pattern of polling into his herd?
I recently purchased a cow that was in calf to a polled bull name of Biddlesden Jasper. Could anyone explain how this bull came to be polled and what type of polling he had scur or true ?
I could go on but to what purpose I have decided not to keep polled dexters !
Ian,
yes it is quite interesting that Tim Bray's full thesis has appeared on the website since the discussion in this thread. Did you know that according to Cardiff University the Dexter project is still active?
apologies for the delay in responding. I was waiting to get some photos of red Kerry cattle. The two below are samples. I will open a new thread on colour shortly and post more photos.
Regarding polling the article on the Simmental cattle society gives a good explanation of how the genes interact. Here is the link again
http://www.britishsimmental.co.uk/resea ... dness.html
I also asked Mike Sinnott about his research on polling. His comments were:
Scurs are often mistaken for horns , scur polled bulls are mistaken for true polled bulls. In Dexter the incidence of polling is very high given the few proposed sources . The situation became pronounced after the second world war. If polling in Dexters had come mainly from introgression of Aberdeen Angus then we would expect true polling ! but scur polling is more common ! what was the source ? It is worth mentioning that a third type of polling occurs in cattle of Zebu origin. Dwarf Zebu cattle are often polled or have small aborted or malformed horns. Introgression of Zebu blood into the Dexter has been suggested many times and even before the breed left Ireland. The Zoological Soc. in Dublin crossed Dexter and dwarf Zebu for several years. Dwarf Zebu were once as popular as Dexters with the gentry of victorian times in England.
One of the last owners of a Golden Suffolk Dun herd was the Prince Duleep Singh an exile from India with a great interest in cattle. It is known that he tried out breeding the suffolks because of inbreeding depression problems . Robert Wallace writting in 1923 gives an interesting account and copies a letter from the Prince.
This is the extract from Wallace's book
A short account, written in October 1907, by Prince Frederick Duleep Singh, of the "herd of Suffolk Dun-Polled cattle, afterwards the property of Arthur Wakerley, Esq., of Gedding Hall, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk": —
These cattle were, for a considerable though undetermined period, kept at Riddlesworth near Thetford, Norfolk, which is on the borders of Suffolk. No record of their early history or breeding seems to have been preserved, but the late Sir Thomas Thornhill, Bart., of Riddlesworth— whose grandfather purchased Riddlesworth about 1803 — informed me that as far as he knew they "had always been there, and were the original breed of the country." It is perhaps only a curious coincidence that the ancient family of de Riddlesworth, who took their name from this place and lived there until about 1450, should have borne, for their arms, a golden bull on a green shield ("vert, a bull passant, or"), "gold" being the shade which describes the colour of this breed better than "Dun." The only other fact that I remember Sir Thomas telling me was that a slight brindling was usually the sign of a good cow and typical of the old breed. This brindling is shown in the water-colour drawing, dated 1813, of a bullock bred by a tenant on the Riddlesworth estate (which picture I had the good fortune ro come across about 1898, in the possession of a descendant of the breeder of the animal, and which has since passed with the herd). At the sale of the Riddlesworth estate in 1S90 the herd was dispersed. I do not know how many it consisted of then ; but some, if not all, were bought by R. E. Lofft, Esq., of Troston Hall, Suffolk, who took them to that place and did his best to keep the breed going, until he sold off all his farming stock in 1895. Not hearing of the sale until the day it took place, I was only able to secure, by telegram, a certain number of the Dun Polls, but 1 subsequently acquired the remainder from Mr Garrett Taylor and another person. Even then the total number which 1 could muster was 6 cows and heifers and i bull. These I kept at Hockwold Hall, Norfolk, where I was then residing, until 1898, when I removed them to Old Buckenham Hall in the same county. They remained there until April 1902, when I sold the whole herd, increased by then to 14 head (which included 6 cows, 4 heifers, i heifer-calf, i bull-calf, and 2 bulls), to Lord Iveagh, K.P., of Elveden, Suffolk. Lord Iveagh only kept them until the end of 1904, when he informed me that he was anxious to dispose of them, and I was then fortunate enough to hear of a purchaser for him in the person of Arthur Wakerley, Esq., of Leicester and of Gedding Hall, Sufifolk, who is the present owner of the herd. The numbers had now increased to ii cows and heifers, 2 heifercalves, 6 bull calves, and 3 bulls, making a total of 22. Mr Wakerley took over the entire herd except, perhaps, some of the bull calves. It will be noticed how large a number of
bull calves were born from 1902 to 1904. This disproportion between the number of male and female calves dropped, and a tendency to abortion, were two of the chief difficulties I had to contend with during the period of over seven years in which the herd was in my hands. In order to try and perpetuate the breed, even at the expense of its purity— acting on the advice of Mr R. E. Lofift— I crossed the Dun Polls, both ways, with Red Polls. The latter being descended from the former, one felt it was the nearest cross that could be obtained without spoiling the type. The progeny of these were kept quite distinct from the pure Duns and were themselves re-crossed with the latter, the intention being to amalgamate, eventually, the two strains. This, however, it was never possible to carry into effect, as Lord Iveagh would only have the pure Duns — the cross-breds therefore were dispersed. It was interesting to note how prepotent the Dun breed was, even the first cross taking, in nearly every case I think, the colour and characteristics of the older race. With regard to colour I found they varied from a dark cream to a rich golden colour, and with ve7y occasionally the brindle markings which Sir Thomas considered typical. The milk was good and yielded a good deal more cream than ordinary Red Poll milk. The quantity of milk did not approach anything like the wonderful records spoken of by Arthur Young, but on the whole the cows were good milkers, some of them giving up to 8000 lb. in the course of the year. I kept the milk records carefully from 1898 to 1902.
Frederick Duleep Singh.
A few years later the pure breed ceased to exist.
Thanks for the above to Mike.
In my tracing of the origin of polling in Dexters the herd that comes up again and again is Woodmagic, most particularly those descended from Grinstead Plover . No one has offerred adequate explanation of the polling in Dexters ! I wonder how many have given thought to why Statenboro Polly had that name.... a clue she was half Aberdeen Angus perhaps
Mr MacIntyre told us in another thread on this discussion board that polling in his herd came from Vycanny Orphan Annie the daughter I understand of a Shorthorn (polled). Could he perhaps explain the inheritance pattern of polling into his herd?
I recently purchased a cow that was in calf to a polled bull name of Biddlesden Jasper. Could anyone explain how this bull came to be polled and what type of polling he had scur or true ?
I could go on but to what purpose I have decided not to keep polled dexters !
Ian,
yes it is quite interesting that Tim Bray's full thesis has appeared on the website since the discussion in this thread. Did you know that according to Cardiff University the Dexter project is still active?
John O'Neill
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
Hello JohnO,
Thank you for the photos of the Red Kerry - I look forward to the new thread on colour.
Re “scur polled bulls are mistaken for true polled bulls” - Notwithstanding the possibility that people sometimes mistake scurs for horns - the scurred gene is a different gene from the polled gene. It is misleading to use the term ‘true polled’ instead of homozygous polled – a scurred bull is still genetically a polled bull – a heterozygous polled animal does not develop scurs unless it also has the gene for scurs. As far as genetic research has ascertained - the polled locus has been mapped to chromosome 1 but there is no DNA test for the polled locus – testing relies on testing for markers associated with the polled locus and specific to certain breed types.
Re “a third type of polling occurs in cattle of Zebu origin” – While Zebu are genetically different to Bos Taurus cattle on many levels I am unable to find a genetic reference to this Zebu type of polling. Consequently I have sent an email to the British Simmental Society asking them for the academic reference to the Zebu content in their polling article… I am fascinated by it and hope they can supply a valid reference.
Re “Introgression of Zebu blood into the Dexter has been suggested many times and even before the breed left Ireland. The Zoological Soc. in Dublin crossed Dexter and dwarf Zebu for several years. ” I have read comments about Zebu cattle being in Ireland – but not in reference to Dexter cattle – can you please ask Mike Sinnott if he has a published reference for this information? I really would be interested in following it up and sourcing the document.
Thank you for the information on the Golden Suffolk Dun herd. It was interesting – however a Dun animal (that being an animal that is genetically the same phenotype (colouration) as the Dun of Dexter’s – ergo ‘DexterDun’ aka ‘Brown’) could not be ‘brindle’ in colouration because animals that are homozygous DexterDun have to be homozygous or heterozygous Black to express the coat colouration of DexterDun. An animal would have to have a wild genotype to display a brindle coat colouration. Red Poll animals have been tested and found to be homozygous wild in colouration. DexterDun is a recessive and therefore – when crossed with another breed/animal which does not carry DexterDun – can not produce calves of the DexterDun colouration – it is only possible with a subsequent cross. Consequently, after reading the article it seems more likely to me that the “Golden Suffolk Dun Herd” was not ‘Dun’ in colour because it had the gene that has been identified in Dexter’s as DexterDun but was a red/wild colouration with other genes effecting the colouration of the coat – similar to those which change the main coat colour of some breeds of red cattle to ‘yellow’.
Re “tracing of the origin of polling in Dexters” – I agree there are a number of anomalies in the origins of this gene in Dexter’s. Some where alleviated for me when I read the UK Congress Papers… I look forward to when the scientists have a DNA test for the Poll locus – and more information on the markers that are passed with this gene in different breeds.
Kind Regards
Kathleen
Thank you for the photos of the Red Kerry - I look forward to the new thread on colour.
Re “scur polled bulls are mistaken for true polled bulls” - Notwithstanding the possibility that people sometimes mistake scurs for horns - the scurred gene is a different gene from the polled gene. It is misleading to use the term ‘true polled’ instead of homozygous polled – a scurred bull is still genetically a polled bull – a heterozygous polled animal does not develop scurs unless it also has the gene for scurs. As far as genetic research has ascertained - the polled locus has been mapped to chromosome 1 but there is no DNA test for the polled locus – testing relies on testing for markers associated with the polled locus and specific to certain breed types.
Re “a third type of polling occurs in cattle of Zebu origin” – While Zebu are genetically different to Bos Taurus cattle on many levels I am unable to find a genetic reference to this Zebu type of polling. Consequently I have sent an email to the British Simmental Society asking them for the academic reference to the Zebu content in their polling article… I am fascinated by it and hope they can supply a valid reference.
Re “Introgression of Zebu blood into the Dexter has been suggested many times and even before the breed left Ireland. The Zoological Soc. in Dublin crossed Dexter and dwarf Zebu for several years. ” I have read comments about Zebu cattle being in Ireland – but not in reference to Dexter cattle – can you please ask Mike Sinnott if he has a published reference for this information? I really would be interested in following it up and sourcing the document.
Thank you for the information on the Golden Suffolk Dun herd. It was interesting – however a Dun animal (that being an animal that is genetically the same phenotype (colouration) as the Dun of Dexter’s – ergo ‘DexterDun’ aka ‘Brown’) could not be ‘brindle’ in colouration because animals that are homozygous DexterDun have to be homozygous or heterozygous Black to express the coat colouration of DexterDun. An animal would have to have a wild genotype to display a brindle coat colouration. Red Poll animals have been tested and found to be homozygous wild in colouration. DexterDun is a recessive and therefore – when crossed with another breed/animal which does not carry DexterDun – can not produce calves of the DexterDun colouration – it is only possible with a subsequent cross. Consequently, after reading the article it seems more likely to me that the “Golden Suffolk Dun Herd” was not ‘Dun’ in colour because it had the gene that has been identified in Dexter’s as DexterDun but was a red/wild colouration with other genes effecting the colouration of the coat – similar to those which change the main coat colour of some breeds of red cattle to ‘yellow’.
Re “tracing of the origin of polling in Dexters” – I agree there are a number of anomalies in the origins of this gene in Dexter’s. Some where alleviated for me when I read the UK Congress Papers… I look forward to when the scientists have a DNA test for the Poll locus – and more information on the markers that are passed with this gene in different breeds.
Kind Regards
Kathleen
Last edited by Kathleen on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Broomcroft
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:42 am
- Location: Shropshire, England
- Contact:
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Louisa Gidney
- Posts: 857
- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:00 am
- Contact:
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
Kathleen: the paper describing the Zebu-Dexter cross breeding in Dublin is
J. W. Malden 1895. The influence of Dexter cattle on other breeds. Journal of Royal Ag Soc England pp 531-40
Unfortunately I have the vol no at home but I can find the full reference if you are interested. It's one of those things I photocopied years ago but didn't write the full source on. I've since tracked down the original and annotated the photocopy but not my bibliography.
J. W. Malden 1895. The influence of Dexter cattle on other breeds. Journal of Royal Ag Soc England pp 531-40
Unfortunately I have the vol no at home but I can find the full reference if you are interested. It's one of those things I photocopied years ago but didn't write the full source on. I've since tracked down the original and annotated the photocopy but not my bibliography.
Zanfara Dexters
Tow Law
Co. Durham
Tow Law
Co. Durham
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
Louisa,
thank you for dealing with the Zebu issue.
Here is a link to the article, on the North Carolina State University website, reproduced by the Simmental society. It explains complete homozygous polledness ( true polled ) and its alternatives very well indeed.
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extensi ... g96-3.html
A google search will find all the information you need on the African Horn Gene
Separate threads need to be set up on the seperate issues and Mike Sinnott has agreed to start posting here. He will open a thread called
Polledness in Dexter Cattle, what do we know
thank you for dealing with the Zebu issue.
Here is a link to the article, on the North Carolina State University website, reproduced by the Simmental society. It explains complete homozygous polledness ( true polled ) and its alternatives very well indeed.
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extensi ... g96-3.html
A google search will find all the information you need on the African Horn Gene
Separate threads need to be set up on the seperate issues and Mike Sinnott has agreed to start posting here. He will open a thread called
Polledness in Dexter Cattle, what do we know
John O'Neill
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
Herd name: Kyleroe
Member Reference: 32802
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
Heya Louisa,
Thank you for the info on the Journal of Royal Ag Soc - if you know of any way I could get to read the article I would be very grateful!
Hello John,
Thanks for the link to the polling article - I was looking in my genetics books and did a search on the genetics site I know ... I did google but nothing came up ... anyway I will go have a look at the link. I am going to have to bug some geneticists about this one!
And I agree John - separate threads are a good idea...
Kind Regards
Kathleen
Thank you for the info on the Journal of Royal Ag Soc - if you know of any way I could get to read the article I would be very grateful!
Hello John,
Thanks for the link to the polling article - I was looking in my genetics books and did a search on the genetics site I know ... I did google but nothing came up ... anyway I will go have a look at the link. I am going to have to bug some geneticists about this one!
And I agree John - separate threads are a good idea...
Kind Regards
Kathleen
-
Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
I have a copy of the RASE journal for 1894 which has the article on page 531, and will try to get it copied in a form I can either post here or email to someone who can. It makes no reference whatsoever to polling but it is an interesting article. The 1898 Journal has a ten page article on Kerry and Dexter Cattle, which makes reference to an article in the 1872 Journal. I think it has references to measurments of Dexters, but I do not have a copy. The 1872 article, according to the 1898 one, says that the colour of Kerries is "either black or red". Then the 1898 article continues "This is scarcely correct. There are red Kerries, but they are considered sports or accidents, red coulours being occasionally dropped from black parents, as is also sometimes the case in herds of Aberdeen Angus cattle; the colour no doubt denoting 'back-breeding'to red ancestors in the remote past. Dexters are often red, and when Mr Pringle's article was written they would be found in the "Kerry" classes at a cattle show; a red Kerry would not now be eliglble"
If I can get Linda to copy the articles without damaging the fragile books I will try to post them, but it may take a few days as she has a lot on at the moment.
Duncan
If I can get Linda to copy the articles without damaging the fragile books I will try to post them, but it may take a few days as she has a lot on at the moment.
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
Thank you Duncan - that would be lovely if you can manage it.
... and in fact it probably is a good idea for people who have these documents to put them on computer so they are not lost to us for ever.
Thanks again.
Regards
Kathleen
... and in fact it probably is a good idea for people who have these documents to put them on computer so they are not lost to us for ever.
Thanks again.
Regards
Kathleen
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Louisa Gidney
- Posts: 857
- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:00 am
- Contact:
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
I've got the 1872 volume of J. R. A. S. E. The article is :
A review of Irish Agriculture, chiefly with Reference to the Production of Live Stock
by R. O. Pringle, Editor of the Irish Farmer's Gazette.
Pages 1-3 cover the Kerry & Dexter, extracts follow:
The Kerry is, properly speaking, the only existing native breed of cattle. There are two varieties of it, first the true Kerry, and next, the "Dexter". The former is a light, neat, active animal, with fine, and rather long limbs, narrow rump, fine small head, lively projecting eye, full of fire and animation, with a fine white cocked horn tipped with black, and in colour either black or red. Cattle of this description weigh, when fat, about 4cwt
The following are the dimensions of a fat Kerry cow, which was awarded a prize at a show of the Royal Dublin Society: 38 inches in height at the shoulder, 70 inches in girth, and 42 inches in length from the top of the shoulder to the tail-head. These measurements indicate a weight of about 30 imperial stones.
The "Dexter" variety is the result of a cross, introduced about 50 years ago by a Mr Dexter, but it is not exactly known what breed that gentleman resorted to for crossing with the Kerry. It is averred by some that the "Dexter" variety is the result of selection, and not of a cross of another breed. Be that as it may, the points of the "Dexter" variety are materially different from those of the true Kerry; for the "Dexter"has a round, plump body, square behind; legs short and thick, with the hoofs inclined to turn in; the head is heavy and wanting in that fineness and life which the head of the true Kerry possesses; and the horns of the "Dexter" are inclined to be long and straight.
Strange to say, distinct as these varieties are .......they have been classed together at the Shows of these Societies, which has given rise to much confusion.
A review of Irish Agriculture, chiefly with Reference to the Production of Live Stock
by R. O. Pringle, Editor of the Irish Farmer's Gazette.
Pages 1-3 cover the Kerry & Dexter, extracts follow:
The Kerry is, properly speaking, the only existing native breed of cattle. There are two varieties of it, first the true Kerry, and next, the "Dexter". The former is a light, neat, active animal, with fine, and rather long limbs, narrow rump, fine small head, lively projecting eye, full of fire and animation, with a fine white cocked horn tipped with black, and in colour either black or red. Cattle of this description weigh, when fat, about 4cwt
The following are the dimensions of a fat Kerry cow, which was awarded a prize at a show of the Royal Dublin Society: 38 inches in height at the shoulder, 70 inches in girth, and 42 inches in length from the top of the shoulder to the tail-head. These measurements indicate a weight of about 30 imperial stones.
The "Dexter" variety is the result of a cross, introduced about 50 years ago by a Mr Dexter, but it is not exactly known what breed that gentleman resorted to for crossing with the Kerry. It is averred by some that the "Dexter" variety is the result of selection, and not of a cross of another breed. Be that as it may, the points of the "Dexter" variety are materially different from those of the true Kerry; for the "Dexter"has a round, plump body, square behind; legs short and thick, with the hoofs inclined to turn in; the head is heavy and wanting in that fineness and life which the head of the true Kerry possesses; and the horns of the "Dexter" are inclined to be long and straight.
Strange to say, distinct as these varieties are .......they have been classed together at the Shows of these Societies, which has given rise to much confusion.
Zanfara Dexters
Tow Law
Co. Durham
Tow Law
Co. Durham
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B.Netti78070
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 5:28 am
Re: First return of Dexters to Ireland
I haven't posted on this forum for some time, but always find the topics interesting to read.
I found this information on the web and thought it would be nice to share. It mentions the same details Louisa stated.
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu3192400 ... 3/mode/2up
It starts on page 201 about the Kerry's and continues on to page 209 with a picture of a Dexter bull and cow.
In the earlier chapters of the book it shows pictures Dexter/Longhorn crosses, very interesting.
I should mention you can turn the pages by using the arrows on the bottom right side of the link.
I found this information on the web and thought it would be nice to share. It mentions the same details Louisa stated.
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu3192400 ... 3/mode/2up
It starts on page 201 about the Kerry's and continues on to page 209 with a picture of a Dexter bull and cow.
In the earlier chapters of the book it shows pictures Dexter/Longhorn crosses, very interesting.
I should mention you can turn the pages by using the arrows on the bottom right side of the link.
Legend Rock Ranch ~ Texas
http://legendrockranch.com
http://legendrockranch.com