Disappointing

[Rob R]

That is down to a situation where marketing and sales were out of kilter and the legacy of expanding niche markets. A joined up strategy was required at the outset. It is not a matter of life or death to some people, the majority of Dexter owners are not going to starve just because nobody buys what have bred. It just isn't priority for some.

Auctions do give the buyer the opportunity to compare available breeding stock side by side in a way that no other selling medium does. True, that's not a priority for some, but should we only cater for some, ie should the Dexter only ever be a (relatively) rich person's plaything?

[Jac]

That is down to a situation where marketing and sales were out of kilter and the legacy of expanding niche markets. A joined up strategy was required at the outset. It is not a matter of life or death to some people, the majority of Dexter owners are not going to starve just because nobody buys what have bred. It just isn't priority for some.

Auctions do give the buyer the opportunity to compare available breeding stock side by side in a way that no other selling medium does. True, that's not a priority for some, but should we only cater for some, ie should the Dexter only ever be a (relatively) rich person's plaything?

So do shows. No we shouldn't and we don't - the Society is a broad church. The issues the breed is currently experiencing are solely in the hands of the membership to solve. Despite the best efforts of a few , there are numerous reasons (too complex to go into) as to why it is always 'groundhog' day.

[Rob R]

That is down to a situation where marketing and sales were out of kilter and the legacy of expanding niche markets. A joined up strategy was required at the outset. It is not a matter of life or death to some people, the majority of Dexter owners are not going to starve just because nobody buys what have bred. It just isn't priority for some.

Auctions do give the buyer the opportunity to compare available breeding stock side by side in a way that no other selling medium does. True, that's not a priority for some, but should we only cater for some, ie should the Dexter only ever be a (relatively) rich person's plaything?

So do shows. No we shouldn't and we don't - the Society is a broad church. The issues the breed is currently experiencing are solely in the hands of the membership to solve. Despite the best efforts of a few , there are numerous reasons (too complex to go into) as to why it is always 'groundhog' day.

Re: shows; yes they do allow comparisons of selected breeding stock, but not necessarily the stock that is available for sale, like the autumn tup sales - you couldn't show that many animals and private sales would make comparisons even more difficult, particularly for people who are new to keeping livestock.

If by 'issues the breed is currently experiencing' you mean the issue we are discussing here (auction prices) then yes, couldn't agree more. Auctions need vendors, buyers and underbidders to work effectively.

[Mark Bowles]

As we all know the dexter breed is different in many ways.
Auction prices reflect the price of cattle that in general i feel are surplus to requirement, therefore the quality may not be the best and hence the price is not the best.
I work hard to promote my herd, i show, i enter herd competitions, i have them linear classified.....all these things, in theory, show overall how good my stock is. I sell everything off the farm for good prices, well better than the average, but its hard work, and costly.
Like everything in life, if you put in the effort then with a bit of luck and the wind in the right direction, you get your just rewards.
I personally think that dexter breeders have the hardest task of all cattle breeds to "make it pay", even i have thought about other breeds to keep in recent months to generate a better income and easier selling through commercial markets.

[Jac]

As we all know the dexter breed is different in many ways.
Auction prices reflect the price of cattle that in general i feel are surplus to requirement, therefore the quality may not be the best and hence the price is not the best.
I work hard to promote my herd, i show, i enter herd competitions, i have them linear classified.....all these things, in theory, show overall how good my stock is. I sell everything off the farm for good prices, well better than the average, but its hard work, and costly.
Like everything in life, if you put in the effort then with a bit of luck and the wind in the right direction, you get your just rewards.
I personally think that dexter breeders have the hardest task of all cattle breeds to "make it pay", even i have thought about other breeds to keep in recent months to generate a better income and easier selling through commercial markets.

Here! Here! This is a very notable contribution to the discussion.

[Rob R]

As we all know the dexter breed is different in many ways.
Auction prices reflect the price of cattle that in general i feel are surplus to requirement, therefore the quality may not be the best and hence the price is not the best.
I work hard to promote my herd, i show, i enter herd competitions, i have them linear classified.....all these things, in theory, show overall how good my stock is. I sell everything off the farm for good prices, well better than the average, but its hard work, and costly.
Like everything in life, if you put in the effort then with a bit of luck and the wind in the right direction, you get your just rewards.
I personally think that dexter breeders have the hardest task of all cattle breeds to "make it pay", even i have thought about other breeds to keep in recent months to generate a better income and easier selling through commercial markets.

Would you say that the extra income, over and above average prices, covers the expense and/or effort of putting that extra work in?

[Kelvin and Lottie James]

There are no auctions within easy reach of East Anglia, so our only publicity comes from showing. The public are very interested in Dexters, but most of them are just show visitors, not actually livestock keepers.

[Boofarm]

No, I do not believe that is true - some people's cattle are in demand not everyone wants to go to an auction although you do say you have tried to sell them privately see last comment.

We have a well known and established breeder of Dexters elsewhere in this thread, who if I understood correctly, only just made his reserve price on the 4 cattle he had entered for sale, the clearance at Carlisle was 70% of animals forward and I believe that only 2 bulls were forward, with respect these are not symptoms of strong demand.

Ask yourself how many advertisements (private) in newspapers/magazines have you seen for Dexter beef? Then ask yourself why this is?

Hint I believe it has little to do with advertising costs.

Sorry but I do not fully understand your response - I have only ever seen one advert for dexters other than at auction and that was a whole herd sale off one of the Scottish Islands some years ago - I have never seen an advert for dexter beef either wanted or for sale. Again if there is an outlet you know of I will be glad to hear of it.

Re: we can only dispose of so many privately
How did you get yourself into this position? This is a serious question - I am not being 'funny' here I seek only to know what motivated you to breed more.

I think you misunderstand me - we are not, at present, in any kind of bad position, we have 10 cows, all dexters, not all registered. This year we have two young animals for sale, they have been offered at auction and failed to reach a sensible price, if they approach 30 months unsold then they will be eaten.

Next year we will have a crop of 4 finished dexter bullocks for sale, we should be able to dispose of these locally.

The next year we should have a crop of up to 10 calves, some will be pure dexter (which can be registered) and some Galloway X. We have ample space and forage to expand the herd, a combination of poor ground and lack of sheds suit dexter cows very well but unless there is a (decent) market to sell pure cattle into then the outcross would seem to be the way forward for our particular circumstances.

Regards
mac

[Jac]

There are no auctions within easy reach of East Anglia, so our only publicity comes from showing. The public are very interested in Dexters, but most of them are just show visitors, not actually livestock keepers.

What a brilliant opportunity to promote Dexter beef, just the right people you want - no land to breed their own.

[Jac]

No, I do not believe that is true - some people's cattle are in demand not everyone wants to go to an auction although you do say you have tried to sell them privately see last comment.

We have a well known and established breeder of Dexters elsewhere in this thread, who if I understood correctly, only just made his reserve price on the 4 cattle he had entered for sale, the clearance at Carlisle was 70% of animals forward and I believe that only 2 bulls were forward, with respect these are not symptoms of strong demand.

Ask yourself how many advertisements (private) in newspapers/magazines have you seen for Dexter beef? Then ask yourself why this is?

Hint I believe it has little to do with advertising costs.

Sorry but I do not fully understand your response - I have only ever seen one advert for dexters other than at auction and that was a whole herd sale off one of the Scottish Islands some years ago - I have never seen an advert for dexter beef either wanted or for sale. Again if there is an outlet you know of I will be glad to hear of it.

Re: we can only dispose of so many privately
How did you get yourself into this position? This is a serious question - I am not being 'funny' here I seek only to know what motivated you to breed more.

I think you misunderstand me - we are not, at present, in any kind of bad position, we have 10 cows, all dexters, not all registered. This year we have two young animals for sale, they have been offered at auction and failed to reach a sensible price, if they approach 30 months unsold then they will be eaten.

Next year we will have a crop of 4 finished dexter bullocks for sale, we should be able to dispose of these locally.

The next year we should have a crop of up to 10 calves, some will be pure dexter (which can be registered) and some Galloway X. We have ample space and forage to expand the herd, a combination of poor ground and lack of sheds suit dexter cows very well but unless there is a (decent) market to sell pure cattle into then the outcross would seem to be the way forward for our particular circumstances.

Regards
mac

Re: Advertising I didn't want to have to spell this out.
Placing an advertisement in the media draws attention to the advertiser. Taking into account the legal requirement to inform environmental health when selling to the public (inc. friends and family members not residing with the seller ) unless the final customer picks it up directly from the inspected butcher or abattoir that cut it. In addition, informing environmental health may also alert other government agencies e.g HMRC.

Whilst not suggesting that anyone in particular is operating 'under the radar' there is only so much one can sell through networking - advertising works. If adverts appear regularly in the local paper from private suppliers then butchers may feel they are missing out on the action and buy whole animals for their shop from those who want to do wholesale improving prices and the profile of the Dexter as a commercial possibility.

[Louisa Gidney]

With regard to size, I was amazed that the Belgian Blue exhibitors came to talk to us, at Wolsingham Show, as they are not making sufficient margin and seriously thinking of Dexters, having eaten the beef. Unfortunately, they wanted to know if Dexters were profitable and the honest answer had to be: not the way I keep them.

[Jac]

With regard to size, I was amazed that the Belgian Blue exhibitors came to talk to us, at Wolsingham Show, as they are not making sufficient margin and seriously thinking of Dexters, having eaten the beef. Unfortunately, they wanted to know if Dexters were profitable and the honest answer had to be: not the way I keep them.

When this thread first started my glass was half full. There is a demand for my stock - it wasn't always that way and I now sell them well above average prices. As regards the beef, there is no shortage of people who wish to buy it. My only constraint is the physical ability to process it and the amount of land I own.

Does anybody make any money farming/smallholding? Looking at the bottom line in some years you make a loss and some years you don't but when you finally get out of the business and add up all that you have spent from start of the venture to the very very end I do not think that you will ever recover your outlay. For example, when we first moved into our current place ten years ago there was not a stick of fencing. It cost us well over £6000 in materials alone before we could move our Dexters here from the Midlands - now it all wants doing again. I am not even going to go into the costs associated with the cattle buildings etc.

Have your Dexters because you love the breed and can't envisage a life without them. Is it a get rich quick scheme? No. Is it a get rich at all scheme? No.

[Rob R]

The way prices are at the moment (land and farming margins) there isn't any livestock that will return the asset value of land in one lifetime, however you don't have to be constrained by owning land - we own less than 40 acres but rent and contract farm land to (almost) make up the difference. You can't do everything yourself, sadly, and you can't do everything at once, but providing you can make canny decisions and ride the lows such as last year then I'm sure farming will come around again and prosper, as it was 30-40 years ago. It's never going to be as easy as back then, in some respects, but in others things have moved on and achieving it is more possible (thinking of the advances in communications and technology, and also the strengths of the breed).

[Saffy]

Yes Rob....and there is another way of looking at it as well, you only live the once so, its best to do whatever it is you enjoy and that gives you the most pleasure and if/when you stop enjoying it, then do something else!

I've been out this morning with my few cows hand shovelling a few high mag nuts into the mouths of the friendliest of them, they actually prefer the personal touch! Followed by a back scratch, not so nice when the rain is coming sideways though.......

Stephanie

[Rob R]

Yes Rob....and there is another way of looking at it as well, you only live the once so, its best to do whatever it is you enjoy and that gives you the most pleasure and if/when you stop enjoying it, do something else!

Exactly. Some said that I should have got a job and built up capital that way, but you never know what's going to happen in life and something might happen that you stops you ever farming in the future, so best to make the best of what you have, when you have it.