What would also be useful is an overview of the attributes that Dexters are scoring poorly on. Are there points that are generally poor in the breed? This sort of information is of value for those that are unable to engage with Linear themselves.
Saffy wrote:I see nothing wrong with extolling the virtues of cattle that do well in linear. How is it different to saying well done if your cow has done well at a show?
It isn't, that was my point - is it is being marketed like a competition, not something that encourages breeders to have their whole herd done. The publishing of VG & EX results only is proof of this. Surely as a breeding tool the only person who gains benefit from knowing the scores is the breeder.
As for the 18 year old cow that is a pure guess that there aren't lower scoring 18 year olds - it may be true or it may not be. It's also a guess that she has had 16 calves - she could have had 8. As many Dexter breeders don't depend on their animals for an income it throws up all kind of anomalies. The data just isn't there to assess the scores against longevity (or other parameters) when the data is incomplete. The scores in themselves are just an x-axis on a graph, especially lacking if the outliers have been erased.
Rob R wrote: Surely as a breeding tool the only person who gains benefit from knowing the scores is the breeder.
Well after all it is the breeder who is going to the trouble and paying to have them scored isn't it.
Linear has been available for Freisian/Holstiens in the UK for decades, I know as I used it on my herd. These people are not hobby farmers and are not having one or two darling little moo cows assessed for the fun of it. Also pretty much every one of these owners was born and bred on a farm and went up through The YFC with annual stock judging tuition and competitions. So they are all pretty hot at judging a cow themselves...yet they have the herd linear assessed. I do not think they are wasting their money. I believe they are right. Many have several assessment visits per year.
They use it to choose the right bull, to choose which ones to flush for embryos, to choose which ones to use as embryo hosts and to choose which ones to sell or cull.
But as a commercial animal other measurable things are taken into account i.e. milk yield.
having one or two darling little moo cows assessed for the fun of it
I don't think folk that are having it done are doing it for fun but I would say that it is just a showing/marketing alternative and the competitive element has come to the fore. If that were not the case and breed improvement was the object then novices would be issued with a booklet with measurements so that they could do their own. You only need good eyesight and a tape measure.
If one has a market abroad then it serves a purpose as the buyers are unlikely to get on a plane and come and look.
Last edited by Jac on Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
I sold my herd a long time ago and back then linear scores were just on conformation...I thought they still were Jac, I can find out if you like. Or are you saying that they have their milk yield and quality, ( butterfat, protein, lactose..., ) recorded as well?
If so, yes they do, this again is something that is paid for and the farmer chooses whether or not to use this service and has it as a management tool, it also helps if ever the herd or an individual cow is sold to indicate past and therefore expected yields. It was available before linear and yet so many commercial farmers choose to use linear as well. The two things together tell you the cows yield and the cows conformation.
BUT if a cow doesn't have the requisite conformation she will NOT last long and will need replacing at great expense! She has to walk into a parlour to milk and a lame cow is in pain her milk yield will plummet. I used linear to choose my bulls for my herd back then and my first two choices were. 1. High as possible points for legs and feet. 2. High as possible points for back. Everything else including yield was chosen afterwards.
I needed less replacement animals than other diary farmers as my cows had greater longevity, also they scored well when linear was brought in.
Whatever reasons we are keeping our animals we can if we wish - and I believe we should take other things into account e.g. ease of calving, milking ability and temperament.
Well done Stephanie, you speak very well on the written page, I'm afraid I am lacking a little on that talent!!
To question Holstein UK abilities if find strange, here are a professional outfit than for decades have lineared dairy breeds, have taken on the dexter as a dual purpose breed 5 years ago and now do beef breeds Simmental and Beef Shorthorn with others in the pipeline. Each assessor sees around 11,000 or more cattle a year. They have workshops galore with all the breeds and regular workshops between themselves where they,as a panel of 13, all individually score an animal within half a point.
The virtues of Linear are there to be seen and now many dexter breeders have taken it on board and are having visits most years as more animals become scoring ages. Those who just simply "dont get it" need to see linear in progress "live" not on paper, I have had people who just could not understand the system until suddenly something was explained and the penny then dropped.
Linear is the most professional and respected action to happen to the dexter breed, we now have the respect in more areas than we ever have, other breeds are following our breakthrough example, please try and understand by proper education and you will see the light!!
"Proper education". Precisely. That's why anonymised information on the whole cohort of Linear assessed animals needs to be made publicly available, rather than merely promoting the super-elite few.
Its raining outside so put my time to dexter admin use.The list below includes animals linear assessed up to and including October 2016.
Not included in the list are rejected animals, ie min or max height,bull teats or testicles, cattle scores rejected by the owners or multiple scores on one individual animal in its lifetime.
Linear is the most professional and respected action to happen to the dexter breed, we now have the respect in more areas than we ever have, other breeds are following our breakthrough example, please try and understand by proper education and you will see the light!!
The proof of the pudding is in the eating Jac, you are selling up, have yours assessed and see if you get a quicker sale/more sell for breeding at a higher price/ you get more offers...then you will be able to give us both sides of the coin....
I believe there is still an offer on Linear - is that right MarK?
Stephanie
P.S. Anyway it is nice to try new things and if they are going - why not do it just for the "hell of it?"
Mark, it's cohort = the sample group, not colour!
The listing is helpful. Although the grades go into the 90's, in fact they only start at 70 for the purposes of this exercise.
I'm interested to see that animals are excluded from the list on height, since this is a variable whose parameters have been changed over the years by DCS. They might otherwise be very good animals by previous standards of the breed.
I'm very disappointed to see bulls' teats and testicles being excluded from the listed results as these are, in my opinion, fundamental. The bull results therefore show an abnormal distribution, weighted to the top end of the range.
The cows show a more normal distribution. I haven't yet worked out mean and standard deviation but these results suggest there is nothing fundamentally amiss in the conformation of this subset of the breed.
