i have several registered offspring from an american angus bull. genus, our AI company, does it all the time i dont think there are any problems. i think Jo Kemp exports semen from her dexter bull Breoch sultan to europe.
dom
Using AI
I am new to this so hope I am not out of order - but could I ask a related question to this link?
I only have 3 (max) breeding cows so owning a bull is not realistic (I have hired in the past but TB now makes this very complicated).
For the last 10 years I have persevered with AI from various dexter bulls and out of 17 AIs I have had 6 successful calves (rather better odds I now realise than some people are predicting!). This last year or so has been complicated and I gave up & agreed with the AI man to try straws from a Welsh Black (the most fertile he said). Out of 4 straws I have had 4 pregnancies pd confirmed (2 now pending and 1 resulted in a steer calf last year - very fluffy!).
I know that hybrid vigour may be the deciding factor in this - but I would really like to produce dexter calves. So my question really is - am I being unreasonable in expecting a better take? (some years I have just given up..) or unlucky in the choice of bull semen? Does dexter semen differ widely in fertility (there was a suggestion that private semen may not be so reliable?). If it does are there any recommendations that anyone has?
Any help would be really great as I have a lovely red heifer I would really like to get into calf now - and am about to try for the 3rd time!
I only have 3 (max) breeding cows so owning a bull is not realistic (I have hired in the past but TB now makes this very complicated).
For the last 10 years I have persevered with AI from various dexter bulls and out of 17 AIs I have had 6 successful calves (rather better odds I now realise than some people are predicting!). This last year or so has been complicated and I gave up & agreed with the AI man to try straws from a Welsh Black (the most fertile he said). Out of 4 straws I have had 4 pregnancies pd confirmed (2 now pending and 1 resulted in a steer calf last year - very fluffy!).
I know that hybrid vigour may be the deciding factor in this - but I would really like to produce dexter calves. So my question really is - am I being unreasonable in expecting a better take? (some years I have just given up..) or unlucky in the choice of bull semen? Does dexter semen differ widely in fertility (there was a suggestion that private semen may not be so reliable?). If it does are there any recommendations that anyone has?
Any help would be really great as I have a lovely red heifer I would really like to get into calf now - and am about to try for the 3rd time!
In my experience AI depends on a very high standard of stockmanship, I trained privatly as an inseminator (at the time I was manager of 150 head black and white dairy herd) the optimum time to AI a cow is one hour after she no longer stands to be ridden, this obviously means that you have to be prepared to be available to watch your stock 24hrs a day when you want to AI them, I have very often in the past AI'd a cow in the early hours of the morning and in my last year with that black and white herd, before leaving to run our own Dexter herd, I was fortunate to achieve a 92% first service pregnancy, in the early years of our present dexter herd I achieved similar results, that said, you need to be very aware of the Dexter make up and don't blame the inseminator for not getting the hoped for % first service pregnancy, most inseminators are not familar with Dexters and tend to put the rod in too far, and of cause they cannot be availabe at exactly the right time.
As regards regeristing Dexter bulls I too think that prices should be kept within reach of all, as if we go along the line of AI we are going to finish up with a very small gene pool which can only be detrimental, or we will find that either unregistered bulls are being used or even worse another breed,
when looking at a bull calf as to wether he is worth keeping as a stock bull it is not wise to look only at his dam and sire this will only give you a small idea as to what he may be like when he grows up, you should look at him at say 6 months to see how he has grown this will give you some idea as to what sort of milk producer his dam is also look at his dam when he is six months old whats her udder like, whats he feet like, whats his sire's feet like also look at his siblings and particularly what the killing percentage is like of his siblings, and then if you consider he is worth keeping take note of what his offspring do. personally I do not believe you can really judge if a bull is worthy of keeping longterm until he is at least 3years old and has offspring on the ground, and I would very definatly never use semen from a bull that is under 3yrs old and that I have not seen offspring of.
Bill,
Castlemears Dexters
As regards regeristing Dexter bulls I too think that prices should be kept within reach of all, as if we go along the line of AI we are going to finish up with a very small gene pool which can only be detrimental, or we will find that either unregistered bulls are being used or even worse another breed,
when looking at a bull calf as to wether he is worth keeping as a stock bull it is not wise to look only at his dam and sire this will only give you a small idea as to what he may be like when he grows up, you should look at him at say 6 months to see how he has grown this will give you some idea as to what sort of milk producer his dam is also look at his dam when he is six months old whats her udder like, whats he feet like, whats his sire's feet like also look at his siblings and particularly what the killing percentage is like of his siblings, and then if you consider he is worth keeping take note of what his offspring do. personally I do not believe you can really judge if a bull is worthy of keeping longterm until he is at least 3years old and has offspring on the ground, and I would very definatly never use semen from a bull that is under 3yrs old and that I have not seen offspring of.
Bill,
Castlemears Dexters
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helen salmon
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:00 pm
I am showing my ignorance here, but when you talk about the success rate for AI is that in terms of getting the cows pregnant or is there more to it? We have had our two AI'd, one took first time, the other took after 3 attempts. Should it be plain sailing now or should I anticipate further problems?
Helen
Helen
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
I think most folk would measure success of AI as %age conception to first service, in your case 50%. My own average is about 30%, despite our AI man being very cooperative about timing, and I would hope I can tell when my cows are on as well as most folk. But we also need to remember that statistics and percentages when working with small numbers is a very unreliable measure of anything.
Duncan
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
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wagra dexters
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:49 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Using AI for the past 7 years, 6 calvings, we have been able to look at all sorts of outcomes.
In UK the rules and logistics may be totally different, but for anybody who is interested, if I can do it, so can you.
I spent 4 days attending a AI training session run by the DPI then bought our own tank. Straws are delivered to the Herd Improvers depot, and they transfer them to our tank which is topped up with LN2 once a month or 6 weeks, depending on evaporation.
There is a wide window of time in which to AI, from 7 to 24 hours, the later the better depending on whether the starting time is certain.
Some cows can be fractious but take on the first straw every year. Others can be text-book perfect, but not take until the third straw. No telling.
Of 20 to 25 breeders it seems that about 8 to 10 will take on the first straw, 8 to 10 on the second straw, and the rest will take on the third, calving 6 weeks later than the first lot.
Apart from the initial outlay for tank and the AI kit, the ongoing cost of liquid nitrogen, and the bulling beacons, the big expense is when the depot handles any straws.
Some people have their own bulls collected for their private use long after the bull is dead. AI needn't narrow the gene pool as not everyone is keen to use the latest fad.
Margaret.
In UK the rules and logistics may be totally different, but for anybody who is interested, if I can do it, so can you.
I spent 4 days attending a AI training session run by the DPI then bought our own tank. Straws are delivered to the Herd Improvers depot, and they transfer them to our tank which is topped up with LN2 once a month or 6 weeks, depending on evaporation.
There is a wide window of time in which to AI, from 7 to 24 hours, the later the better depending on whether the starting time is certain.
Some cows can be fractious but take on the first straw every year. Others can be text-book perfect, but not take until the third straw. No telling.
Of 20 to 25 breeders it seems that about 8 to 10 will take on the first straw, 8 to 10 on the second straw, and the rest will take on the third, calving 6 weeks later than the first lot.
Apart from the initial outlay for tank and the AI kit, the ongoing cost of liquid nitrogen, and the bulling beacons, the big expense is when the depot handles any straws.
Some people have their own bulls collected for their private use long after the bull is dead. AI needn't narrow the gene pool as not everyone is keen to use the latest fad.
Margaret.
Graham Beever & Margaret Weir
http://www.wagra-dexter.com.au/
http://www.wagra-dexter.com.au/
I agree that success rate varies between individual cows. Our AI man always says not to inseminate them the first time they come bulling after calving as the success rate from the second time onwards will be far greater. Also, that there wil be a greater chance of conception the day after you see the others riding her. Our success rate was always 'average' but the conception rate has gone up considerably since we started going by these two basic 'rules'. We had three red cows AI'd this year (as our bull is black) and they all took first time. Maybe just lucky?
Helston, Cornwall
I don't even bother to try an A1 anything before 12 wks from the date of calving and using this yard stick my success rate has certainly been more than 50% to first service.
However it can throw your calving pattern well out of sink if you miss the 12wk cycle. I have my bull currently running next to my autumn calvers and one was in bulling today and if he had not been there telling me she was in bulling I would not have known as no one else was bothering.
However it can throw your calving pattern well out of sink if you miss the 12wk cycle. I have my bull currently running next to my autumn calvers and one was in bulling today and if he had not been there telling me she was in bulling I would not have known as no one else was bothering.