Runaway Cattle - Advice Please

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:35 pm

It may be allowed if you don't use the gate to change it for a good quality stile but you need to check with the footpath man at your local council offices about Public Rights of Way first as I am not sure. If not you could ask if you could put in a Kissing Gate instead - I think that is what they are called. ??? That should work but again may not be allowed as it may not suit the disabled. The other possibilty would be a very strong spring!!!

Stephanie

Bridgehouse · Post by **Bridgehouse** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:07 am

We have changed farming practice recently and needed to update the access on some of our public footpaths. We contacted the local council who came and visited. As a consequence they installed a new stile, replaced a bridge and replaced two older stiles. The council had discussed on their visit about installing a kissing gate instead of a stile to give better access but it was there decision in the end to install a stile, either would have been the councils expense.

We have recently opened a permissive bridal way on our farm and installed bridal gates. We have had situations of the stock getting through the gates, and cannot decide if a member of the public had left it open or somehow the cows are doing it.

I think discussing it with the council and hopefully if they have funding to do it then it would be peace of mind for you......and your neighbour.

Mark

clacko · Post by **clacko** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:08 am

i think kissing gates are aloud as we have some in our area on reserves, and they are adapted for wheel chairs.
what they do now is set your gate and posts as usual and then they make a deeper recess so a chair can go back far enough to swing gate across infront of it, there is room for young cattle to get around the gate but they have over come this by adding a section of gate post (8" or so) mid mounted on a chain from the hanging post to the latch end of the gate with a auto latch on the post. the side that the block is hung on will be the side it should shut to. make sure your block and chain is not to long so it can be sat on top of gate or touch the floor. the only way it can be left open is to be propped or tied, if all dimentions and done properly it would be a serious struggle for a well grown 8mth+ to get round, hope you can get the jist of that lot. paul

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:55 am

I should mention that whilst so far none of the Dexters have done it - my Section D youngster has so far opened one gate with a spring bolt on it which I thought was impossible and another that had an ordinary bolt with a peice of rope looped over the top - which I thought was a belt and braces job until then! At first we though it was someone doing it maliciously as there aren't footpaths in those fields and it was two night running but having watched the little charmer patiently trying to undo other even more complicated gate fastenings, I now know where the problem is!!! So wherever he is we tie a piece of rope near the bottom very tightly lots of knots - the knots the other side from him, preferably hidden in the undergrowth, as well as everything else we can get and it has worked for the last few months.

They are intelligent but so are Dexters!

Stephanie

welshdexterboy · Post by **welshdexterboy** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:05 pm

As all the others have said Carole if you don't need the gate the council will sort it for you and put a stile or kissing gate there but I wonder why you don't need it ??? is it an old gate between two farms ( which can be handy for getting stock back) or do you own part of a larger holding??. You cannot though tie your gate up on a foot/bridlepath.

Bridlepath gates with the upright handle can be opened by cattle accidentally when they rub on them obviously from the right direction :p

Saffy we have a part-bred cob who delights in undoing knots and bolts etc and we have fixed him with a chain and dog clip which so far he has not undone :laugh:

nuttalls · Post by **nuttalls** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:29 pm

we av if lots o footpaths worst luk, one just bein upgraded by the council to a bridleway although we dissapproved! i think that the gate cud b locked if u av a style which the council mite provide. ps A BEWARE OF BULL SIGN SHOULD BE ON THE PATH! jean jordeth

Bridgehouse · Post by **Bridgehouse** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:30 pm

I was just wondering about the BEWARE OF BULL SIGN. I was thinking that this was only a requirement for certain breeds??? I know it is a requirement for holstein friesian however not sure of the obligation with dexters. I am not denying that they are a good idea.

Some literature I have read previously also stated that once the bull is removed from the field you are not allowed to leave the sign about bulls being present. So some way of hanging the sign for easy removing would be a good idea. It discussed that if the sign was left up it may be seen as the landowner using it as a deterrent to stop the general public from using the footpath, and this would not be acceptable.

I would appreciate anyones knowledge on this area.

Mark

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:43 pm

As with so many aspects of law I think the bull owner cannot win. If you put a sign up it could be argued that you knew that the bull was dangerous, and are therefore liable for any damage caused.

Duncan

Bridgehouse · Post by **Bridgehouse** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:49 pm

Maybe a 'Bull in Field' sign would make the point without suggesting danger and therefore liability. Life has its mad moments, recently attended a HSE (Health and Safety) awareness session for farms. We were informed that a farmer was succesfully sued by someone who was injured falling through the farmers workshop roof whilst trying to break in to it........the farmer was liable because he didnt have a sign saying fragile roof apparently!

Mark

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:59 am

There is a list of bulls that cannot be kept in fields where there is a public right of way. They are exclusively or partially dairy breeds, I can't find the list at the moment. Someone once told me when I was looking at this problem that Dexters were considered dairy for these purposes so I looked into it in great detail at the time. Dexters are not on the list of dangerous or dairy bulls, or at least they weren't when I looked.

We have simply "Bull in Field" signs ups. They don't say danger or beware, just Bull in Field. If you leave them up when there is no bull in the field (like I do!) then someone could argue that the sign was meaningless, but I wouldn't worry about it. I suppose you could put up a sign "Bull might be in Field" :D.

davidw · Post by **davidw** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:54 am

You are right, the farmer is in a very difficult situation. I have been considering getting a "No Dogs" sign made up because in my view, cows with calves at foot are far more likely to be aggressive towards a dog than the average bull would be to a person. In a recent legal case - involving Simmental's admittedly - a woman who was badly injured when walking her dog through a herd of Simmentals and sucklers tried to sue their owners for £1 million.

davidw · Post by **davidw** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:57 am

I just found this on the web -
Section 59 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981 bans bulls of recognised dairy breeds (Ayrshire, British Friesian, British Holstein, Dairy Shorthorn, Guernsey, Jersey and Kerry) in all circumstances from being at large in fields crossed by public rights of way.

Bulls of all other breeds are also banned from such fields unless accompanied by cows or heifers, but there are no specific prohibitions on other cattle. Fields in this legislation do not include areas such as open fell and moorland.

carole · Post by **carole** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:34 pm

David I could not agree with you more about the mums and calves, our bull just ignores everyone (including me) but the mums will have a go if a dog comes to them.

bjreroberts · Post by **bjreroberts** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:02 pm

davidw wrote:I just found this on the web -
Section 59 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981 bans bulls of recognised dairy breeds (Ayrshire, British Friesian, British Holstein, Dairy Shorthorn, Guernsey, Jersey and Kerry) in all circumstances from being at large in fields crossed by public rights of way.

Bulls of all other breeds are also banned from such fields unless accompanied by cows or heifers, but there are no specific prohibitions on other cattle. Fields in this legislation do not include areas such as open fell and moorland.

What makes bulls from dairy breeds different to other breeds?

monica waltho · Post by **monica waltho** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:00 pm

Dairy bred bulls are known to be more aggreesive.