veal

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:16 am

How do you slaughter the piglets?

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:23 am

Di, you and I think alike, and treat our animals as sentient beings; a view the geneticist is gradually being converted to, by the evidence of their own experiments. I cannot think of them simply as commodities to be exploited, and have moral reservations, even if they do cost me.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

Penny · Post by **Penny** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:41 am

Dom,

saw you on the F word last night, and well done for presenting such a good case for veal being produced in a natural way. You are getting a good product, reared with compassion, from an animal which otherwise would have been shot at birth or had a bad life infront of it. Definitely a case for eating rose veal.
Shame they did not show the Dexters as well, but it was excellent publicity for you! Hope you do well from it.

Penny

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:14 pm

I thought the programme was excellent except I wish the chef Gordon Ramsay would stop jumping up and down on the spot! His wife must be so calm.

When the calves went outside and started running round, that was great. If that's how pink veal is produced, then as long as the slaughter is also acceptable, then I can see why the RSPCA think it's OK.

I think what you said about flavour Dominic is correct. When most people say something is a good flavour, they actually mean it's tender. I may even try some pink veal when I see it but not Dexter because I agree with the "what a waste" view.

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Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:15 pm

My apologies domsmith, it has been pointed out to me that I addressed you wrongly!
Beryl (Woodmagic)

bjreroberts · Post by **bjreroberts** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:29 pm

I cannot see the point of using Dexters for veal under normal circumstances.

I do believe that anyone concerned with animal welfare that consumes dairy products should be encouraged to try rose veal raised to RSPCA standards.

I think most people choose not to eat veal on welfare grounds, but by not doing so they are actually encouraging the euthanasia or live export of male dairy calves.

stew · Post by **stew** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:23 pm

i really dont know if they kill pigletts differant than fat pigs we take to the local slaughter house
i dont think its a waste kill part grown stock if the price is on a par or better with fully finished stock
after all im a farmer not a zoo keeper like some folk

Penny · Post by **Penny** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:13 pm

Sorry but had to reply to this.
Farmer or Zoo keeper, Stew, an animal deserves a decent existence from beginning to end. Just because you "farm" it does not mean you cannot have compassion for your animals.

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:12 am

Veal is a contraversial issue on both sides of the ocean it would seem; and so it should be, as with all livestock raising. The fact is that modern 'industrial' livestock husbandry has been wrong, disrespectful of the animal and in many cases cruel. People should be aware of how the animals that they are eating are raised, fed and killed. I think that this is really the moral dilema. We, my husband and I, try to our best to make sure that every animal and bird on our farm is given the best, stress free, healthy evironment from birth (or coming in here) to death, whether that life is long or short. Usually we veal 'drop' dairy bull calves but I am interested in the difference, if there is one other than size, in Dexter veal; I know the difference in the beef. I am honestly not trying to offend, but we eat meat and I cannot see the difference between killing a chicken at 10 -16 weeks with a pig or a calf. The difference I see is how they were raised and how they were killed. Actually it is the same issue to me with a steer at two years +. Liz

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:29 am

The one thing that everyone would agree upon is that any uncaring, unthoughtful actions or words by farmers or the meat industry will give power to those who want to see an end to the consumption of meat, so it is in everyone's interests to look after animal welfare standards and to improve them as well. And not only to be actually caring, but also seen to be.

To me, arable is more unkind to animal life in general than livestock farming, as it is to the planet with all the ploughing, which according to my book, creates the most carbon of all.

stew · Post by **stew** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:21 am

one mention of veal and some folk think im a bloody monster
im araid im keep stock to make money im not a hobby farmer or some one that has pets i ern a living directly from my stock
the welfare of my stock is very important
but so is puting food on my plate

Anna · Post by **Anna** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:54 am

I really must say I am surprised by this veal discussion. Where I live veal is no big issue as far as I know and I think veal is quite uncommon. Some dairy bull calves are killed at an young age but many are raised for beef.

A majority of the members of this forum are beef producers, the quality of the dexter beef is rightfully praised and it is also often pointed out that all animals are not good enough to breed from and fits better in the freezer. Then, why should it be amoral to kill a calf at veaning but not at an age of 24 months? You seem to have seen tv programs etc showing some awful veal production that is going on in your countries, maybe this is the difference?

I agree with Liz, it is not the age of killing that is the problem, it is how they are raised and killed. Every hobby farmer or beef producer or whatever should strive for the very best life and a stressfree end of it for their beasts/chickens/lambs. If not, he or she should be doing something else. But drinking "industrial milk" is no better than eating "industrial veal" I think.

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wagra · Post by **wagra** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:15 pm

Anna, I think Stew may have been stirring the stew-pot here a bit, and he is no-where near the monster that he says he has been made out to be.
None of us on this site would have cattle at all if we didn't enjoy caring for them, from go to whoa. Most of us actually love them, and it is to nobody's advantage to have any of them stressed.
It could be argued that there is less likelihood of stress or presentiment at an earlier age, but with regular handling, sensitivity and common sense, none of it need be traumatic at any age.
We have never had fevered or bruised meat come back to us.
Margaret.

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:23 pm

stew wrote:i really dont know if they kill pigletts differant than fat pigs we take to the local slaughter house
i dont think its a waste kill part grown stock if the price is on a par or better with fully finished stock
after all im a farmer not a zoo keeper like some folk

i am certainly no hobby farmer or zoo keeper. sunnyside is my families living,we probably kill more beasts per week than most farms of our size. every week we take a picking to the abattoir, i select them myself and i think hard about what i am doing, and i often question what we do. i know if i dont do it then someone else who does not care as much would be doing it.

but how animals are killed is as much part of my ethos as how they are raised. putting food on the plate or money in the bank would never come above animal welfare.

every farmer who keeps animals has a financial stake in the stock, and i would hope they would wnt to protect their investment if nothing else, so i hope i am right about that.

in my position as a veal producer, i cannot say anything against dexter veal, other than it does seem a waste, i was not critisizing, just making a point, and i would be be interested at the finances of potential yield from a dexter.

as long as you care for your beasts how you finish them is your business.
weaner sold as spit roasters if you pay for killing might net you £50 less diesel for the journey, weaners sell for £40 here live without the messing about. we sell few weaners as i think you dont make money from it, all ours are finished on the farm.
one of my points for suckling pigs would be you need to probably charge more than you think, sows take some feeding these days.

dom (head zoo keeper)

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:05 am

If you call 120 cattle and 500 sheep a hobby, then I am a hobby farmer :D. I certainly feel like a zoo keeper at times!

Dominic - I can see Rose Veal as being a really acceptable meat product. I think what you did the other night on the tele did more for veal than anything I've seen. I think I would now eat Rose Veal whereas a week ago I would absolutely not.

At what age are the calves slaughtered and is the slaughter any different to steers?

Anna - Veal is a big issue in the UK because chefs and the RSPCA are trying re-introduce it to the UK as mainstream. Traditional methods of producing it were banned years ago in the UK because it was considered cruel. There was also a 10 year ban on exporting calves in case they were used to make veal.

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