More heifers for beef - Value of heifers

[Sylvia]

Thats why I won't get into breeding alpacas. You should see all the animals being dumped now that people have built up their herds and can't sell the excess animals or eat them!

I am not in the slightest bit surprised about this, Kathy. Most alpaca owners in this country have the rose coloured specs firmly welded to their faces. And have apparently never heard of the 'king's new clothes' fable. Anyone who sticks their head above the parapet and offers a few home truths is treated to significant abuse. Yes you've guessed it, I tried it and was lucky to escape relatively unscathed :p

[Martin]

Why can't you eat alpacas Sylvia? Their fleeces must be worth a fortune if that is the only reason for keeping them.

Martin.

[Sylvia]

Martin, 13 years ago buyers were told alpaca fleece was worth £2 per oz. Now £5 per kg is more like it which if sheared annually hardly covers cost of shearing. Why can't you eat alpaca ? Well they do in South America, but alpacas have been extensively marketed in this country as animals which do NOT have to be sent to slaughter so the mindset is similar to that with which people regard their cats and dogs. I know dogs are also eaten in some areas of the world but you get the picture. I'm as bad as the rest, I wouldn't want to eat mine. On a practical note the cost of steaks would have to be eye-wateringly high to make it worthwhile.

[Woodmagic]

Sylvia I am intrigued, why do you feel differently about your Dexters? I admit I am completely illogical; I wont eat my Dexters but am not vegetarian. But would like to know how you differentiate between an Alpaca and a Dexter, although I know the former isn’t built as a meat carcase.

[Sylvia]

I know it is illogical, Beryl, but alpaca, goats, dogs (we don't have cats) we wouldn't eat. Beef, lamb (and bacon from a neighbour) no problem. Come to think about it we couldn't eat a number of our Dexters and ewes either who are particular long term favourites. But the reason for having Dexters and Shetland sheep was to produce beef, lamb and wool and the reason for having alpacas was for fibre. The Pygmies are pets, the rescued angoras give fibre but depite having almost all male kids we couldn't eat those. I have had rabbit a long time ago, but my husband would have a fit if I offered it to him now. My brother refuses to eat any fish because he has had an aquarium and koi pond in the past. So have we, but have no problem with a nice fish supper. A friend has Shetlands but buys our lamb because they don't want to eat their own, although they go to slaughter anyway.

I was actually surprised that we could eat our own beef and lamb, although I always send several at a time and we don't know exactly which is which. However by the time it comes back all neatly vacuum packed it has miraculously changed from that nice little animal in the field to very tasty anonymous beef or lamb. And we don't have a problem with that.

If there is a psychiatrist looking in I'm sure they won't be able to resist explaining why brains work in such peculiar ways.

[Kirk- Cascade Herd US]

Why don't we eat certain foods?

We are programmed to eat the foods we've learned are safe and healthy and to distrust/distaste unfamiliar foods. Most of the food learning comes from our parents, families, and local culture who learned which local foods to trust via trial and error (sometimes death) over many years. This programming to distrust unfamiliar foods, and favor the familiar is a survival feature. The good news is that without this programming, you would eat all sorts of bad things and die. We descend from those who didn't have the habit of eating just about anything (the others died before they had children). The bad news is that this programming keeps you from trying all sorts of perfectly good foods unless you're near starvation. You can overcome this programming if you really set your mind to it and work at it. Only try new foods when you're very hungry. You're brain then says, "Well, I'm going to die of starvation anyway, so I might as well try this possibly harmful food".

Moral of this story? Go without food for 3 days before you try alpaca (or cat) and you'll probably think it's fantastic! (wink)

Kirk

[groubearfarm]

We live next door to a large breeder of Alpacas and yes this question came up, why not eat the meat, their answer was that they have bred their animals for their fleeces and they therefore would have to breed and feed differently to make the carcase worthwhile.

Fiona

[Sylvia]

Mmmmm. So why doesn't Beryl eat her Dexters, Kirk? Although I'm sure she knows that Dexter beef is superb and won't poison her because we all keep banging on about how good it is? And she admits she isn't vegetarian.

[Sylvia]

Fiona, I'd love to know how they would breed and feed differently to get a decent joint of meat from an alpaca.

[Saffy]

I have been learning what I can about this lovely little breed from books and this site.

As far as the subject of eating or retaining for breeding dexter heifers is concerned what strikes me is quite simple. In a breed with such a long and productive life you really don't need many replacements. So surely unless you have a much sought after herd most heifers will have to become beef or you will have to sacrifice an older cow to the knacker to keep the heifer. If a cow has an average 10 calves in her life and half are female by the time she has her last calf she would have replaced herself 5 times over!!! Of those 5 possible replacements unless you want a much bigger herd surely you aim to just keep the best candidate?

I kept a friesian herd and calved down all the heifers but there was a good market for the spares be they a freshly calved heifer or an older cow which had in some way displeased me - one that springs to mind used to beat up the automatic feeders in the parlour mercilessly! I would sell about 25 a year usually in Hereford Market and a handfull of cows a year would be culled.

We also bred a few of the less productive cows to a charolais bull and kept a small hereford herd. The best beef I got to eat came from a small hereford heifer.

I now have a tiny flock of rare breed sheep and have 2 surplus ewe lambs/yearlings born a year ago April. They are for sale but like dexters no interest so far, I'm not bothered as I realised they might not sell and when we have finished eating the last of their brothers if they aren't sold they will go in the freezer. After all the reason we wanted sheep was for their meat and this year my 3 ewes produced mostly ewe lambs!

I think part of the problem is that it is all to easy to get in to the habit of believing any heifer can be kept and having had that thought sending it for beef becomes a hard decision to make.

Having farmed most of my life I am still a terrible softy but have learned to cope with this by deciding from the start that all stock will be eaten or sold unless it looks like being an outstanding candidate for breeding when it reaches maturity. This changes my mind set and does help! Also frankly an animal changes so much as grows I would have kept alot I shouldn't have otherwise!!!

Stephanie

[marion]

I did eat a heifer one year when I didn't have a steer (a full sister to one that turned into my best cow). The problem is, one wants to keep the older cows and try them to different bulls. Then keep the heifers until they calve, to see the results of the matings, in regards to milk and udders qualities. What a shame to have to make the decision to eat a promising heifer, or an excellent foundation cow. It would be easy if they had real flaws, like crooked legs, scrawny rump or dippy back, no problem, designate for beef...but when they all start out looking good, what's a person to do.. ..marion

[Rob R]

It is probably true of many herds, with the average herd size being so small it is not always easy to compare your heifers so well. With four cows calving two heifers a year (if you're lucky, I only got 25% heifers in my first ten years), you don't get to compare them so well (unless you drag them all off to the shows). Also it comes into the 'pet' philosophy of wanting to keep the females from a smaller herd, particularly if you've registered them in the first 30 days- why can't the society offer a provisional registration for £1 or so to be registered by, say, 30 months?

[Kirk- Cascade Herd US]

Mmmmm. So why doesn't Beryl eat her Dexters, Kirk? Although I'm sure she knows that Dexter beef is superb and won't poison her because we all keep banging on about how good it is? And she admits she isn't vegetarian.

When I heard that about Beryl, it actually made me feel a bit emotional. I really do love our Dexters. My favorite thing to do on a sunny afternoon is go take a nap with them in a sunny fresh green pasture. As logical as I am, I would have a hard time eating some of my favorites. Perhaps Beryl can't think of eating "someone" she loves even if they are yummy.

Remember however, most of it is the programming. If your parents raised lovely animals for enjoyment and food, and slaughtered them in a respectful and humane way while you watched, and then respectfully talked about daisy at the dinner table as providing for the family, then you are more likely to feel comfortable with that. If your family found it distasteful to kill an animal or to eat a friend that you raised, then you likely have that programming.

You can overcome the programming, but only if you really want to. I suspect that Beryl has no motivation to eat her life long friends at this point - I get it.

Now, back to eating my leg of lamb - I really did love to see little Iggy play in the pastures.

[Woodmagic]

To save further speculation - with Beryl it is more a case of philosophy rather than psychology. I am simply behaving as an ostrich. I eat beef but cannot look one of my animals in the eyes, knowing I am contemplating putting it on my plate at some future date. However, I would claim I am no more illogical than the average vegetarian, who ignores the calves that will have to face slaughter, and the cockerels often killed at birth to enable him to consume eggs and milk
I suspect one-day humanity will become vegan. We now know that animals and fish have many more intellectual qualities than we used to give them credit for. However, that will mean the almost complete elimination of the animal kingdom, when they are no longer needed in present numbers. Think of all that global warming they are contributing to!

[Broomcroft]

I am at the other end of the scale in a sense. I avoid eating any meat that I did not know, preferably brought up myself and was certain it had a good life, was not being wasted and was slaughtered without any knowledge of what was happening or as near to that as you can get. I would love to be able to slaughter on the farm. Maybe one day!

Whilst I understand and respect vegetarians, I could never become one or vegan, because when I'm farming I personally consider one of the worst things I do, and that makes me feel really bad (far more than an abattoir visit), is doing stuff in my tractor - topping, mowing, making hay. All the wildlife that has made home in the grass, or wheat, etc is displaced, killed, chopped up, or harmed. I feel much better about eating a steak from a cared-for animal than I do eating cornflakes. In my view, to the animal world, arable is the equivalent of carpet-bombing.