Changing the face of British Breed Societies - Breed Society Aims & Roles
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Chris Taylor
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:18 pm
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Mark Bowles
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1290
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:03 pm
- Location: Leicestershire England
Unfortunately I no longer purchase the Farmers Weekly and have not read the article. The comment I would like to make is that the Council is made up of people who have volunteered to work for the breed; although it may seem that personalties and egos get in the way some time. Every so often the Council seek the advice of members and whilst a little adverse criticism is welcome constructive criticism is even more welcome.
Whilst being a Council member myself, the views here are my own.
I believe that the Society has got itself caught up in reactive decisions and should be looking for a more proactive approach; with programmes in place for short term and long term projects to benefit the breeder and the breed.
To this end would everyone like to send in, either to this website or to the Secretary 5 ideas to benefit the breed and the members. All ideas welcome.
I look forward to being inundated
Whilst being a Council member myself, the views here are my own.
I believe that the Society has got itself caught up in reactive decisions and should be looking for a more proactive approach; with programmes in place for short term and long term projects to benefit the breeder and the breed.
To this end would everyone like to send in, either to this website or to the Secretary 5 ideas to benefit the breed and the members. All ideas welcome.
I look forward to being inundated
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
1. Promote good quality auction sales & sort out the problem the society has with the York sale
2. Stop the obsession with DNA testing
3. Promote and encourage polled animals
4. Announce a programme to eventually rid the breed of the Chondrodysplasia gene.
5. Offer free transfers to new members
Ok there's 5 ideas. And yes I do realise that 4) would need DNA tests! But there ARE simple ways to do it without having to test everything in sight.
I was going to suggest that the society post minutes of council meetings on the website but I notice that this has already begun. Well done those Council members responsible for this.
There does need to be a discussion about how the society website relates to this one. I would like to see the 2 sites co-operating and not trying to offer the same features. This site does a superb job in running this forum also in offering cattle for sale.
2. Stop the obsession with DNA testing
3. Promote and encourage polled animals
4. Announce a programme to eventually rid the breed of the Chondrodysplasia gene.
5. Offer free transfers to new members
Ok there's 5 ideas. And yes I do realise that 4) would need DNA tests! But there ARE simple ways to do it without having to test everything in sight.
I was going to suggest that the society post minutes of council meetings on the website but I notice that this has already begun. Well done those Council members responsible for this.
There does need to be a discussion about how the society website relates to this one. I would like to see the 2 sites co-operating and not trying to offer the same features. This site does a superb job in running this forum also in offering cattle for sale.
I believe the problems facing the Dexter society are rather unique in that we are no longer a rare breed with members fighting for its survival, and it is not a commercial breed in the proper sense of the word.
I visited a well respected breeder earlier this year and was shown the 'show cattle' and then the 'commercial' herd. There were no short cattle in the 'commercial' herd. On my first outing to a group meeting I was told by a well respected member 'you won't make money from Dexters'. I only wish I had the time and resources to try and prove that theory wrong.
Quite a few Dexter owners are living a 'lifestyle' and are not interested in financial side of keeping a few cows, its the knowing what goes into my meat that keeps them with Dexters. I have no problem with that as that's why I purchased my first Dexters, but my position has now changed as more land has become available to me and I look to keeping more cows. Looking forward I hope to be able to make a profit (not a living) from the animals that I keep. My expectations from the breed are now different from what they where a couple of years ago. I would like the society to be seen to be more commercial and promote the breed and research projects that will enable us to carry the breed forward.
So here we are with a membership that requires different things from the same council. Any direction that they wish to go will always be the wrong one for some.
Ted, I do not envy you in your task ahead as you will court critisism whatever you do, good luck.
I visited a well respected breeder earlier this year and was shown the 'show cattle' and then the 'commercial' herd. There were no short cattle in the 'commercial' herd. On my first outing to a group meeting I was told by a well respected member 'you won't make money from Dexters'. I only wish I had the time and resources to try and prove that theory wrong.
Quite a few Dexter owners are living a 'lifestyle' and are not interested in financial side of keeping a few cows, its the knowing what goes into my meat that keeps them with Dexters. I have no problem with that as that's why I purchased my first Dexters, but my position has now changed as more land has become available to me and I look to keeping more cows. Looking forward I hope to be able to make a profit (not a living) from the animals that I keep. My expectations from the breed are now different from what they where a couple of years ago. I would like the society to be seen to be more commercial and promote the breed and research projects that will enable us to carry the breed forward.
So here we are with a membership that requires different things from the same council. Any direction that they wish to go will always be the wrong one for some.
Ted, I do not envy you in your task ahead as you will court critisism whatever you do, good luck.
Martin.
Maidstone
Kent
Maidstone
Kent
Martin has hit the nail on the head, I have read the article and was not impressed. We are not competing with the big commercial breeds, and I could find very little that would apply. We have a very diverse membership, and we need to cater for all of them.
For instance horns, I disbud and couldn’t keep my cattle in cubicles if I didn’t, but there are some members who think it sacrilege to take them off. I carried on a crusade for years to rescue the Dexter from the achodrodysplasia gene, but I recognise that if you have a much loved short leg you are going to want to keep it, and you cant govern the offspring.
A little while ago, I suggested waiting to see how the new Council progressed, we already have minutes on the web site, and the prospect of registering on line; somebody does seem to be listening!!!
Let us see what proposals we can come up with, as Ted suggests, but remember many members will continue to keep them as a hobby. DNA testing is a must for those who want to export, but I do think we should also cater for the membership who simply want to keep a few animals and enjoy them, and do not want to step up the expense unnecessarily. As a member of RBST I am concerned that emphasis on today’s commercial needs, may unwittingly eradicate genes that at this moment in time, we do not recognise we shall need at some future date.
For instance horns, I disbud and couldn’t keep my cattle in cubicles if I didn’t, but there are some members who think it sacrilege to take them off. I carried on a crusade for years to rescue the Dexter from the achodrodysplasia gene, but I recognise that if you have a much loved short leg you are going to want to keep it, and you cant govern the offspring.
A little while ago, I suggested waiting to see how the new Council progressed, we already have minutes on the web site, and the prospect of registering on line; somebody does seem to be listening!!!
Let us see what proposals we can come up with, as Ted suggests, but remember many members will continue to keep them as a hobby. DNA testing is a must for those who want to export, but I do think we should also cater for the membership who simply want to keep a few animals and enjoy them, and do not want to step up the expense unnecessarily. As a member of RBST I am concerned that emphasis on today’s commercial needs, may unwittingly eradicate genes that at this moment in time, we do not recognise we shall need at some future date.
As long as a diverse group of people keep a diverse genetic base of Dexters, there'll be something for everyone in a Dexter. I don't believe they should all be alike as that removes their ability to adapt to a variety of climates and vegetation. They can still be everybody's cow as long as a wide genetic base is maintained.
Purity is something that is fine in a few herds, but leads to the neccessity of inbreeding due to the small number of purebred Dexters left. I think its time to accept that the animals with outbreeding somewhere in their pedigree, still have a place in the usefulness of the breed.
If long legged Dexters are more economical to breed than the short-legged Dexters, for an income, then those are the ones a commercial breeder should use. (We make money out of selling our long legged Dexter steers at the sales yards). If short legged Dexters are more convenient for the size of land a person has, then there should be short legged Dexters available to choose from. As long as sensible precautions are used, regarding breeding short to long, I can't see why people shouldn't continue to breed short legged Dexters.
They aren't my preference, nor are horned Dexters, but I don't look down on anybody wanting to breed horned Dexters. I also feel that those wanting to breed polled Dexters shouldn't be sneered at either.
They're a wonderful animal and I think an appropriate form of Dexter can be found to suit most needs. I also think that there is nothing wrong with that.
Purity is something that is fine in a few herds, but leads to the neccessity of inbreeding due to the small number of purebred Dexters left. I think its time to accept that the animals with outbreeding somewhere in their pedigree, still have a place in the usefulness of the breed.
If long legged Dexters are more economical to breed than the short-legged Dexters, for an income, then those are the ones a commercial breeder should use. (We make money out of selling our long legged Dexter steers at the sales yards). If short legged Dexters are more convenient for the size of land a person has, then there should be short legged Dexters available to choose from. As long as sensible precautions are used, regarding breeding short to long, I can't see why people shouldn't continue to breed short legged Dexters.
They aren't my preference, nor are horned Dexters, but I don't look down on anybody wanting to breed horned Dexters. I also feel that those wanting to breed polled Dexters shouldn't be sneered at either.
They're a wonderful animal and I think an appropriate form of Dexter can be found to suit most needs. I also think that there is nothing wrong with that.
Inger
NZ
NZ
A free for all breeding policy could lead to anarchy; the Breed Society has to lay down guidelines. In the case of the Dexter, such rules may not provide the best answer commercially. In today’s climate a bigger animal would suit the pocket for slaughter costs, and a trend can already be seen in this direction, the danger could be we finish up with a Welsh Black.
While I will argue for keeping the much-loved ‘short-leg’ pet, I do not concede that they are actually more practical. In my experience, they are basically the same animal, the only difference being the handicap of the deformity in the ‘short-leg’, which has a skeleton out of proportion with the body, and tends to have a shorter life often suffering from arthritis as it ages. The spirit inside that body and the normal genes for thriving and survival are still there but handicapped. My sentiments would be to encourage the elimination of the achondrodysplasia, but no hard and fast rules. The heartbreak over the lost calf where two short leg animals contrive a mating, or a much loved animal that ends its career in mid-stream due to arthritis, should be enough to encourage a saner breeding policy.
As far as pure breeding is concerned, I am hoping the Cardiff project may give us some leads which will enable us to salvage and multiply those precious genes which were developed over many centuries, when our little black cattle had to fend for themselves, under very adverse circumstances or die. I don’t want to categorise them into boxes, I merely want to exploit to the full the inheritance we throw away at our peril.
While I will argue for keeping the much-loved ‘short-leg’ pet, I do not concede that they are actually more practical. In my experience, they are basically the same animal, the only difference being the handicap of the deformity in the ‘short-leg’, which has a skeleton out of proportion with the body, and tends to have a shorter life often suffering from arthritis as it ages. The spirit inside that body and the normal genes for thriving and survival are still there but handicapped. My sentiments would be to encourage the elimination of the achondrodysplasia, but no hard and fast rules. The heartbreak over the lost calf where two short leg animals contrive a mating, or a much loved animal that ends its career in mid-stream due to arthritis, should be enough to encourage a saner breeding policy.
As far as pure breeding is concerned, I am hoping the Cardiff project may give us some leads which will enable us to salvage and multiply those precious genes which were developed over many centuries, when our little black cattle had to fend for themselves, under very adverse circumstances or die. I don’t want to categorise them into boxes, I merely want to exploit to the full the inheritance we throw away at our peril.
Hi Ted, is this the start of a new approach? If so I applaud it but please do not forget that if the Council really wants to encourage members to come forward with ideas and participate in deciding future direction it needs to give feedback on those ideas and be prepared to enter into open discussion on them.A constructive dialogue with members either through this website or the official one would be a great step forward.
In response to your request for ideas I believe this is not a time for tinkering or coming up with the odd change. I think something more comprehensive is needed i.e.
1.Use a questionnaire to find out member profiles,wishes and ideas
2 Use that information to answer 3 questions:
- Where is the Society now?
- Where does it want to be?
- How should it get there?
3 Develop an implementation plan
Perhaps this is too radical for the Council to contemplate or feel it empowers the membership too much????
Whatever else happens I support other contributors in saying it is essential that the undoubted talents in the Council need to quickly come up with effective initiatives that promote our breed and its products before the average price of our cattle declines further and we see the exodus from Dexters turn into something precipitous.
Ted,it would be great to see your views on the above and keep up the good work
In response to your request for ideas I believe this is not a time for tinkering or coming up with the odd change. I think something more comprehensive is needed i.e.
1.Use a questionnaire to find out member profiles,wishes and ideas
2 Use that information to answer 3 questions:
- Where is the Society now?
- Where does it want to be?
- How should it get there?
3 Develop an implementation plan
Perhaps this is too radical for the Council to contemplate or feel it empowers the membership too much????
Whatever else happens I support other contributors in saying it is essential that the undoubted talents in the Council need to quickly come up with effective initiatives that promote our breed and its products before the average price of our cattle declines further and we see the exodus from Dexters turn into something precipitous.
Ted,it would be great to see your views on the above and keep up the good work
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Chris Taylor
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:18 pm
I read with interest the comments made to the topic I posted with regard to the Changing Faces of British Breed Societies. I certainly think that this article is food for thought, and has some very valued points and its great that it brings about so much discussion.
However I disagree with the comment that we can not compete with the bigs boys, and that we are a smallholders animal only. I personally think that these comments are wrong on both accounts!
We can compete with the big boys! By being as professional as these societies, by spending money and using this in good marketing and publicity so that we can promote our image and the breeds attributes. The main society very seldomly publishes articles on our breed in the farming press, or any Dexter breeders making a good job, i.e promoting organics, meat promotion etc. The Dexter cattle society as the Farmers Weekly article states, should be marketing the breeds main attributes, quality meat and conservation grazing to produce the meat !! I am sorry but a stand at Smithfield, with a few piccies of cows and rosettes do not bring in the 'punters', image and visual display is everything, and certainly draws people into the stand!! We must improve our marketing to increase membership and increase revenue !!!
Second point, Yes the Dexter is ideal for the smallholder, but so are the other native british breeds, but it is the animals size which makes it more appealing. I am not going to go into the breeds attributes, but feel that to increase cows numbers we must push harder to promote 1) Quality beef selling to a niche market, be that pure bred or cross bred beef, from cows which are 'milky' and thrive in all environments 2) The Dexter as a Conservation tool for grazing projects etc.
Okay the export market is also open, and we MUST market our cattle in this area.We should be inviting overseas buyers and encourage overseas visitors to the UK, many other main breed societies are now marketing their cattle breeds in Germany and France etc at agricultural events overseas, why arent we ??
There so many Farm Shops selling Dexter meat, and running herds of 200 cows plus, are these not commercial. We have a mixed membership, we must cater for everyone, and the only way to do this is to market through the mixed media.
However I disagree with the comment that we can not compete with the bigs boys, and that we are a smallholders animal only. I personally think that these comments are wrong on both accounts!
We can compete with the big boys! By being as professional as these societies, by spending money and using this in good marketing and publicity so that we can promote our image and the breeds attributes. The main society very seldomly publishes articles on our breed in the farming press, or any Dexter breeders making a good job, i.e promoting organics, meat promotion etc. The Dexter cattle society as the Farmers Weekly article states, should be marketing the breeds main attributes, quality meat and conservation grazing to produce the meat !! I am sorry but a stand at Smithfield, with a few piccies of cows and rosettes do not bring in the 'punters', image and visual display is everything, and certainly draws people into the stand!! We must improve our marketing to increase membership and increase revenue !!!
Second point, Yes the Dexter is ideal for the smallholder, but so are the other native british breeds, but it is the animals size which makes it more appealing. I am not going to go into the breeds attributes, but feel that to increase cows numbers we must push harder to promote 1) Quality beef selling to a niche market, be that pure bred or cross bred beef, from cows which are 'milky' and thrive in all environments 2) The Dexter as a Conservation tool for grazing projects etc.
Okay the export market is also open, and we MUST market our cattle in this area.We should be inviting overseas buyers and encourage overseas visitors to the UK, many other main breed societies are now marketing their cattle breeds in Germany and France etc at agricultural events overseas, why arent we ??
There so many Farm Shops selling Dexter meat, and running herds of 200 cows plus, are these not commercial. We have a mixed membership, we must cater for everyone, and the only way to do this is to market through the mixed media.
I take most of what you say on board Chris, but to be able to mass market Dexter beef you have a chicken and egg situation. Supermarkets and large buyers of animals are looking for a consistant supply of uniform animals which as breeders we cannot suppy. The farm with a large herd and its own farm shop is a different thing all together, they would market meat not animals. If I took a finished Dexter to my local market at Ashford how many people do you think would know what it was or would have an outlet for it. Another thing is that we cannot mass market and retain our niche status. Whenever possible I sing the praises of our chosen breed to whoever likes to listen or for that matter whoever is in earshot, and will continue to do so for all the reasons that we keep them and the pleasure they give me. I just wish I could point them in the direction of a local butcher that stocked it.
Martin.
Maidstone
Kent
Maidstone
Kent
The Farmers’ Weekly article argued for collaboration of Breed Societies for recording, we have done that, and it has resulted in a Herd Book that does not please many of us.
It says we should combine with other breeds to provide services for the commercial sector of our non-pedigree breeders, which they suggest will comprise 90% of all Dexter breeders?? I would suggest 5% would probably be a fairer assumption
The 2005 Herd Book records 2084 births, of those, five herds averaged 21, the rest were mostly well under 10, many under five Where are all these herds of 200? In my experience when a really large herd emerges, it seldom lasts more than about five years.
I agree one of the attractions of the Dexter is its small size. However, it is the small size of the Dexter which militates against it being commercial, many overheads are per head.
It is easy enough to sell the quality of Dexter beef, but with the cost of slaughter now twice that of the cost for other breeds, and the beef premium no longer there to compensate, you have a problem.
It makes sense to face the facts and then work with them. The article put the emphasis on catering for the commercial market, which in the case of anything other than us, and the rare breeds, will be the majority. If we want to combine, it should be with the RBST whose needs are still closest to our own.
To concentrate on the commercial buyer would be a nonsense.
Any breeder would be grateful for help in making their Dexters pay their way, but if your prime aim were to make money, you would do better to consider another breed. We need to cater for the majority of our breeders, mostly small breeders, and provide satisfactory records for posterity, without putting up fees to the extent that we lose half our membership.
It says we should combine with other breeds to provide services for the commercial sector of our non-pedigree breeders, which they suggest will comprise 90% of all Dexter breeders?? I would suggest 5% would probably be a fairer assumption
The 2005 Herd Book records 2084 births, of those, five herds averaged 21, the rest were mostly well under 10, many under five Where are all these herds of 200? In my experience when a really large herd emerges, it seldom lasts more than about five years.
I agree one of the attractions of the Dexter is its small size. However, it is the small size of the Dexter which militates against it being commercial, many overheads are per head.
It is easy enough to sell the quality of Dexter beef, but with the cost of slaughter now twice that of the cost for other breeds, and the beef premium no longer there to compensate, you have a problem.
It makes sense to face the facts and then work with them. The article put the emphasis on catering for the commercial market, which in the case of anything other than us, and the rare breeds, will be the majority. If we want to combine, it should be with the RBST whose needs are still closest to our own.
To concentrate on the commercial buyer would be a nonsense.
Any breeder would be grateful for help in making their Dexters pay their way, but if your prime aim were to make money, you would do better to consider another breed. We need to cater for the majority of our breeders, mostly small breeders, and provide satisfactory records for posterity, without putting up fees to the extent that we lose half our membership.
- Where is the Society now?
- Where does it want to be?
- How should it get there?
We sort of know where the Society is now - fulfilling a great many members requirements by registering and maintaing a herd book of pedigree animals.
Where does it want to be - a very good question. If we can answer that we can work on how to get there. With 12 members on Council I'm sure they would have 12 ideas, and the 1200 members, 1200 more.
We have produced questionaires in the past and I feel that this would be a very useful means of monitoring current membership's views and expectations.
I personally don't believe the Dexter is a commercial breed in relationship to others.
What we do have is a very commercial breed in niche markets. We have a premium product that most sell at a discounted price.
What we don't have is consistency of supply to the marketing opportunities out there.
For example I sell off excess weaned steers - the purchaser has linked up with a local pub/restaurant. The restaurant's customers absolutely love the idea of a locally reared, almost organic product; which they can also go and see on the hoof to see how it is looked after. The restaurant would like to have one steer a month.
This is where I believe the breed should be going. Supplying quality local butchers and pubs and restaurants.
The problem locally is not so much the slaughter but a cold store to hang for 3/4 weeks and then correct butchering.
I believe that the Dexter is an early finisher (18 to 20 months) so the hanging on the bone is not a problem.
As regards Shows - we do need to keep the Dexter in the public eye. Personally I don't believe that a show like Smithfield is the right one. From my point of view attending shows is to sell animals and attract new members who are looking to start new herds. People interested in Dexters are unlikely to attend a commercial show like Smithfield.
Keep the comments coming as I feel that the Society is on its way. Have you had a look at the DCS website recently ?
Have a good Christmas everyone and a Happy and Healthy New Year
- Where does it want to be?
- How should it get there?
We sort of know where the Society is now - fulfilling a great many members requirements by registering and maintaing a herd book of pedigree animals.
Where does it want to be - a very good question. If we can answer that we can work on how to get there. With 12 members on Council I'm sure they would have 12 ideas, and the 1200 members, 1200 more.
We have produced questionaires in the past and I feel that this would be a very useful means of monitoring current membership's views and expectations.
I personally don't believe the Dexter is a commercial breed in relationship to others.
What we do have is a very commercial breed in niche markets. We have a premium product that most sell at a discounted price.
What we don't have is consistency of supply to the marketing opportunities out there.
For example I sell off excess weaned steers - the purchaser has linked up with a local pub/restaurant. The restaurant's customers absolutely love the idea of a locally reared, almost organic product; which they can also go and see on the hoof to see how it is looked after. The restaurant would like to have one steer a month.
This is where I believe the breed should be going. Supplying quality local butchers and pubs and restaurants.
The problem locally is not so much the slaughter but a cold store to hang for 3/4 weeks and then correct butchering.
I believe that the Dexter is an early finisher (18 to 20 months) so the hanging on the bone is not a problem.
As regards Shows - we do need to keep the Dexter in the public eye. Personally I don't believe that a show like Smithfield is the right one. From my point of view attending shows is to sell animals and attract new members who are looking to start new herds. People interested in Dexters are unlikely to attend a commercial show like Smithfield.
Keep the comments coming as I feel that the Society is on its way. Have you had a look at the DCS website recently ?
Have a good Christmas everyone and a Happy and Healthy New Year
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groubearfarm
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:52 pm
- Location: Tiverton Devon
Anyone interested in Smithfield should look at the DCS web site and see the report on the Christmas Show. We hope that next year some members will consider entering stock for the show.
I do not regard that we were a stand with a few 'piccies and rosettes'. We set up a very professional stand which was kept busy for two days talking to many interested parties who were interested in the breed and the quality meat we produce. Many people visiting the stand were commercial breeders who understood the benefits of the Dexter breed. At Smithfield there was a significant interest in conservation grazing and the local meat we produce. Many people attended the stand and all were very complimentary. This is an example of the society working for the breeders/members.
With regard to articles, anyone has the right to submit articles to the farming press. The Council are all volunteers and but to achieve the greater aims discussed above full co-opertive participation from all the membership will be needed.
I do not regard that we were a stand with a few 'piccies and rosettes'. We set up a very professional stand which was kept busy for two days talking to many interested parties who were interested in the breed and the quality meat we produce. Many people visiting the stand were commercial breeders who understood the benefits of the Dexter breed. At Smithfield there was a significant interest in conservation grazing and the local meat we produce. Many people attended the stand and all were very complimentary. This is an example of the society working for the breeders/members.
With regard to articles, anyone has the right to submit articles to the farming press. The Council are all volunteers and but to achieve the greater aims discussed above full co-opertive participation from all the membership will be needed.
Fiona Miles
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon