Rob R wrote:
We also need to dispell with any illusions that animals might be saved from slaughter if they have papers, a rope on and are groomed. Taking the papers away won't stop anyone breeding from them either - an awful lot of buyers aren't bothered about the pedigrees, as can be seen when pedigree stock are sold in the unregistered sections.
Melton average prices were £2.80 difference between the main sale and the dispersals last year.
Only a reserve will save an animal from slaughter. Yes, taking the papers away will not prevent people from breeding them but if they are not registered then no breed Society or Society member needs to concern themselves about it. As the family history is not verified they cannot be classed as Dexters with any degree of certainty.
Yes an awful lot of buyers aren't bothered about the pedigrees unless of course they get TB or F&M when I guarantee they most certainly will be bothered. Those with registered animals need to appreciate their worth and not sell them for such silly prices with paperwork.
Last edited by Jac on Sun May 03, 2015 2:26 pm, edited 9 times in total.
Have you considered having a herd dispersal on farm, or at a local market, without other sellers you will have any buyers full attention.
Also have a frank look at your stock, any that are probably going to go for beef will give a better return by cutting out the middle man, entry and auction fees by sending direct to slaughter.
We where pleased with prices at york, but appreciate they where propped up by more buyers looking for stock than animals to bid for.
Humberdale Dexters (31319)
Holderness
East Yorkshire
SteveM wrote:
Also have a frank look at your stock, any that are probably going to go for beef will give a better return by cutting out the middle man, entry and auction fees by sending direct to slaughter.
We where pleased with prices at york, but appreciate they where propped up by more buyers looking for stock than animals to bid for.
Good advice but I find it hard to appreciate that anyone could be pleased with the prices at York other than they were an improvement on last time.
Rob R wrote:Deserve prices will not save an animal from slaughter. Only keeping it can do that.
Exactly, bringing it home if it does not reach your reserve or keep the paperwork and sell it for what you can get. Feel satisfied that you have done the breed a favour.
Actually, I was wrong, there is another way which is to find the right buyer, ie promote it better. Keeping an animal doesn't save it from slaughter unless you have a need for it, in which case don't sell.
Higher prices also don't mean breeding homes. I considered buying a couple of heifers at York for breeding but they both went for more money than I had available, which pleased me. One, however, went straight to slaughter. A lower price might have saved it so we can'tmake assumptions based on price alone.
Rob R wrote:Actually, I was wrong, there is another way which is to find the right buyer, ie promote it better. Keeping an animal doesn't save it from slaughter unless you have a need for it, in which case don't sell.
Higher prices also don't mean breeding homes. I considered buying a couple of heifers at York for breeding but they both went for more money than I had available, which pleased me. One, however, went straight to slaughter. A lower price might have saved it so we can'tmake assumptions based on price alone.
If it is priced at or above the value of the carcase nobody will buy it for slaughter. Selling it cheap does not guarantee a breeding home either. You have no control once a animal leaves you it may go for slaughter it may not.
Back to the topic, it is a very big problem disposing of a large herd especially as they are not a commercial breed. If circumstances permit then it is better to plan your exit strategy and do it over a number of years but I appreciate that is not always possible.
Jac wrote:If it is priced at or above the value of the carcase nobody will buy it for slaughter. Selling it cheap does not guarantee a breeding home either. You have no control once a animal leaves you it may go for slaughter it may not.
I meant that if you take it home rather than selling it more cheaply then you're going to have to do something with it. Chances are you'll be looking at slaughtering it. There are no guarantees after sale, even if you do sell it at above meat market value as there are people out there who do loose money on the animals they buy for a quick sale. And breeders who value genetics more than (meat) money. I'd never kill an animal I bought as a pedigree breeder though, as my word is a guarantee.
Rob R wrote: I'd never kill an animal I bought as a pedigree breeder though, as my word is a guarantee.
All well and good but what happens if it fails to get in calf regularly? Are you going to bury it in the garden at the end of its breeding life? I guess not....... it'll go 'down the road' with the rest of them.
Rob R wrote: I'd never kill an animal I bought as a pedigree breeder though, as my word is a guarantee.
All well and good but what happens if it fails to get in calf regularly? Are you going to bury it in the garden at the end of its breeding life? I guess not....... it'll go 'down the road' with the rest of them.
Of course not, if I have been sold a breeding animal that doesn't breed then I am not going to breed from it - I'm a Dexter breeder, not a miracle maker. If that's your expectation then you really shouldn't be selling any of your animals, to anyone. Neither can I promise not to drop dead myself next week.
The person who buys haltered, well turned out pedigree stock who has them slaughtered within days clearly hasn't attempted that, though, and really isn't comparable.
Rob R wrote:
The person who buys haltered, well turned out pedigree stock who has them slaughtered within days clearly hasn't attempted that, though, and really isn't comparable.
No, it isn't comparable and I'm sure you do your best. But it brings me back to the point about reserve prices - if it had been higher than the carcase value it wouldn't have gone for meat. That is the trouble with auctions you can't vet the buyer - have no control over who buys your animal.
I take the view that if I no longer have a need for something and a buyer will not give me above the carcase value for that animal I will kill it myself. No it doesn't mean that if I receive a fair price it won't end up in a bag at some point but at least I haven't given it away and then learned that it is dead - that would be adding insult to injury.
That's quite right, but price is a very crude tool on which to vet buyers, whether they be private or auctions, you have no control at all, the only control you have is the price that you are willing to accept.
I've been 'vetted' by a vendor in the past who wanted a forever home for their stock. I knew the breeding and know that the breeder has a similar policy to you, so the animal would not have been cheap in the first place. I must not have seemed trustworthy enough as I didn't want to pay a high price and probably because I run a my herd commercially. However, the animals went to the other buyer, but then they appeared back on the market within months. I enquired but received a story that seemed unlikely to have developed in the time between then and when the animals were sold so I left it at that. I then found another advert for the same animals which gave a different excuse. Your mention of vetting reminded me of it so I checked the tag on BCMS just now & funnily enough it went on to another holding in the same county for a further 7 months before being sent to a slaughterhouse.
The way to encourage higher prices is not, IMO, to keep pushing up the reserves, which can be even more damaging to a sale, but to encourage more people to turn out and bid. One of the reasons I've never been to Melton is because it's a long way to take the trailer when there's a high chance of it being a wasted journey but had I been more aware of the stock in the disperal sales, I would have been there, helping to push prices up.
The Dexter market is very different to most other breeds due to the fact that most of the people keeping them don't rely upon the income from them. On the one hand this can mean higher prices, as buyers can afford to pay more without worrying that it'll return a surplus. On the other hand, when they've purchased stock, not having to rely on the income, means they can sell low to suit their timescale. As a result prices tend to be much more variable, but I'm not going to criticise anyone for that, as we're a broad church and we can't expect to be selling stock into that market without suffering some of the volatility.
However, my view is that we should be attempting to move away from that scenario and reduce the volatility a little by beefing more but also by really advertising stock better, particularly those sent to auction. This includes better pictures, complete and relevant details. There is perhaps a view that auctions are there to 'get rid' of stock and therefore you don't have to put any effort into marketing them, but like anything, you only get out what you put in.
Rob R wrote:That's quite right, but price is a very crude tool on which to vet buyers, whether they be private or auctions, you have no control at all, the only control you have is the price that you are willing to accept.
I've been 'vetted' by a vendor in the past who wanted a forever home for their stock. I knew the breeding and know that the breeder has a similar policy to you, so the animal would not have been cheap in the first place. I must not have seemed trustworthy enough as I didn't want to pay a high price and probably because I run a my herd commercially. However, the animals went to the other buyer, but then they appeared back on the market within months. I enquired but received a story that seemed unlikely to have developed in the time between then and when the animals were sold so I left it at that. I then found another advert for the same animals which gave a different excuse. Your mention of vetting reminded me of it so I checked the tag on BCMS just now & funnily enough it went on to another holding in the same county for a further 7 months before being sent to a slaughterhouse.
The way to encourage higher prices is not, IMO, to keep pushing up the reserves, which can be even more damaging to a sale, but to encourage more people to turn out and bid. One of the reasons I've never been to Melton is because it's a long way to take the trailer when there's a high chance of it being a wasted journey but had I been more aware of the stock in the disperal sales, I would have been there, helping to push prices up.
I would be interested to know just what your interpretation of ‘my policy’ is. Here is the line the in the sand.
Fine words don't butter any parsnips. I am not running a charity - I cannot afford to let stock go for less than I can get for the beef. I don't expect someone who buys my stock to give it a forever home that would be unrealistic. However, it is not a matter of people being more trustworthy because they pay a higher price that is just snobbery but if I have doubts that they are not able to look after an animal properly then that is a different matter, better it meets a swift end than a life of misery.
I think that part of the problem is that the Rare Breed sales were originally promoted as venues for the national and regional exchange and dissemination of breeding stock. The expectation therefore was of a sale of pedigree breeding stock, with all the attendant registrations and inspections.
It has never been made explicit by the promoters or auctioneers that butchers are in attendance, which is why it comes as a most unpleasant surprise. I would certainly not contemplate dragging cull stock to a pedigree sale, that is what the local marts are for, destined for Cleveland Meat Company up here, who pay fair prices in the ring.
My father dinned in to me two lessons when I started out, which I naturally did not appreciate at the time.
1. Where there's live stock, there's dead stock
2. First loss is least loss.
The latter dictates prices I'll accept in the ring. I've passed out stock before now but revising costs afterwards, it would have been better in the long run to have let them go.
