This Summer was a very busy time for me and I was late registering a calf. (About 3 weeks late)
I have just been told that I must now submit a DNA test in order to register!
So, the question I have is quite simple - does this society want to encourage registration on Dexter cattle, or not?
As far as I'm concerned there is now a real question as to whether or not the suscriptions, registration fees etc etc are actually worth the bother?
What is the DCS up to?
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
I've now discovered that I have to have DNA tests of the parents!!!!!!!
All of this because I was a few days late in registering!
Who is running this show? What is all this meant to achieve for goodness sake.Why is my animal suddenly under suspicion because its 7 weeks old rather than 4 weeks old?
Oh yes, and now I find that the practise of buying a nice bull calf now requires DNA testing of both the calf and its parents!
Now look you people on Council. Most Dexter keepers do it as a hobby. Dexters are never ever going to be a significant force in the world of cattle. This nonsense is simply going to kill the society. Can someone tell me what ir t is meant to achieve?
All of this because I was a few days late in registering!
Who is running this show? What is all this meant to achieve for goodness sake.Why is my animal suddenly under suspicion because its 7 weeks old rather than 4 weeks old?
Oh yes, and now I find that the practise of buying a nice bull calf now requires DNA testing of both the calf and its parents!
Now look you people on Council. Most Dexter keepers do it as a hobby. Dexters are never ever going to be a significant force in the world of cattle. This nonsense is simply going to kill the society. Can someone tell me what ir t is meant to achieve?
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
Probably the best way to avoid all the DNA testing is to notify the birth. This can be done at the time of BCMS registration, at no cost, and if the subsequent conversion is over the 30 days then we have to pay - every other breed society has some sort of similar scheme, some of them much more punitive. The simple fact is our council, elected by the membership, are doing their best to run a credible registry of pedigree cattle. Most breed societies have evolved a similar system over a long number of years. They know from experience that the longer the interval between birth of a calf and registration the more inaccuracies creep in and the less credible the pedigree tends to become. I say this as a generality, not a comment on any particular individual case, but unfortunately the rules must be drawn up without individual cases in mind and adhered to. We would think very little of a breed secretary who bent the rules to suit the individual.
The call to be presented at the AGM to reduce certain fees may as well be addressed here too. The council does not pull fees out of a hat, and I have had a quick look at a few other breed society fee lists.
AA LIM DEX
Annual Membership 33.15 35.25 30
prefix registration 11.76 11.75 15
Female registration 29.38 29.38 12
Bull registration 29.38 29.38 50(inclds DNA)
These details started out as table but I am not sure if they will stay in the right places when I post but basically the DCS is comparing favourably with the others. The cost of transfers is not so easy to compare but may be a bit more for the Dexters - but they do change hands quite a lot and we must bear in mind that the fact that so many owners are hobby farmers is no reason to reduce the fees - if anything it makes the running of the society more expensive and certainly more trying for our patient office staff. We should all remember that, and I hope that reason will prevail at the AGM
Duncan
The call to be presented at the AGM to reduce certain fees may as well be addressed here too. The council does not pull fees out of a hat, and I have had a quick look at a few other breed society fee lists.
AA LIM DEX
Annual Membership 33.15 35.25 30
prefix registration 11.76 11.75 15
Female registration 29.38 29.38 12
Bull registration 29.38 29.38 50(inclds DNA)
These details started out as table but I am not sure if they will stay in the right places when I post but basically the DCS is comparing favourably with the others. The cost of transfers is not so easy to compare but may be a bit more for the Dexters - but they do change hands quite a lot and we must bear in mind that the fact that so many owners are hobby farmers is no reason to reduce the fees - if anything it makes the running of the society more expensive and certainly more trying for our patient office staff. We should all remember that, and I hope that reason will prevail at the AGM
Duncan
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
I agree with Duncan, if you do not register your animal with BCMS within 27 days the animal cannot be sold or put into the food chain, I always birth notify at the same time as inform BCMS, admittedly I inform BCMS on line and hopefully we will be able to do the same with the DCS in the future.
Fees, I will give a few more fees of breeds some larger and some smaller than the Dexters.
Devon R/R L/horn Hereford
Annual M/Ship £58.75 £30 £65
Prefix £23 .50 nil £25
Female Reg £11.75 £15 £15
Male £23.50 £55 ?
Transfer £17.50/11.75 £10 £15
Devon R/Ruby are very small and have no full time Secretary. and no DNA test on Bulls.
PS Thanks Duncan for those figures as it saves me doing it.
Ken
Fees, I will give a few more fees of breeds some larger and some smaller than the Dexters.
Devon R/R L/horn Hereford
Annual M/Ship £58.75 £30 £65
Prefix £23 .50 nil £25
Female Reg £11.75 £15 £15
Male £23.50 £55 ?
Transfer £17.50/11.75 £10 £15
Devon R/Ruby are very small and have no full time Secretary. and no DNA test on Bulls.
PS Thanks Duncan for those figures as it saves me doing it.
Ken
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Stuart Tarrant
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:59 am
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
Thanks for the figures from Duncan and Ken. I'm not complaining about these figures, our society costs what it costs and we need to pay for it. My third job (after running 2 shops) is as a local councillor and I'm well awae of these issues.
The questions I have are twofold:
1. Why does a 7 week old calf need a DNA test, along with its parents - when a 3 week old calf does not? Duncan is right, of course I should have got it in on time - but I didn't. This is supposed to be a cattle society - not the Inland Revenue!
There needs to be limits but make them sensible ones, say a £10 surcharge for animals a month late then DNA tests after, say, 6 months. The DCS is trying to punish members for an oversight and I realy don't want MY society playing at these games.
2. Why are we making bull registration so difficult? Bear in mind that Dexter "bulls for hire" are thin on the ground. I am aware that there may be a good reason for this, can someone tell me what it is.
My point is that I really do have enough stress in my other job(s). I keep a few cattle for pleasure and I don't need life made any harder!!
The questions I have are twofold:
1. Why does a 7 week old calf need a DNA test, along with its parents - when a 3 week old calf does not? Duncan is right, of course I should have got it in on time - but I didn't. This is supposed to be a cattle society - not the Inland Revenue!
There needs to be limits but make them sensible ones, say a £10 surcharge for animals a month late then DNA tests after, say, 6 months. The DCS is trying to punish members for an oversight and I realy don't want MY society playing at these games.
2. Why are we making bull registration so difficult? Bear in mind that Dexter "bulls for hire" are thin on the ground. I am aware that there may be a good reason for this, can someone tell me what it is.
My point is that I really do have enough stress in my other job(s). I keep a few cattle for pleasure and I don't need life made any harder!!
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tirbachdexters
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:14 pm
If you are "too busy" to renew your car insurance you stand to get a hefty fine.
If you are "too busy" to renew your Car Tax or MOT you stand to get a hefy fine.
If, as the owner of 2 shops, you are "too busy" to submit your vat return on time you stand to get a hefty fine.
So why should the Dexter Society be any different? If you were a few days late & got away with it - what next? A few weeks,a few months or even a year or two? As has already been stated if you don't advise BCMS of the birth in 30 days that animal will not be accepted into the food chain & is refused a conventional passport.
If you found time to advise BCMS - why couldn't you advise the Society at the same time? We do & have had no problems and before you ask - yes we are busy as well! ???
If you are "too busy" to renew your Car Tax or MOT you stand to get a hefy fine.
If, as the owner of 2 shops, you are "too busy" to submit your vat return on time you stand to get a hefty fine.
So why should the Dexter Society be any different? If you were a few days late & got away with it - what next? A few weeks,a few months or even a year or two? As has already been stated if you don't advise BCMS of the birth in 30 days that animal will not be accepted into the food chain & is refused a conventional passport.
If you found time to advise BCMS - why couldn't you advise the Society at the same time? We do & have had no problems and before you ask - yes we are busy as well! ???
At the risk of pouring petrol on the flames, there is an intrinsic difference between the legal regal requirement of sorting out your VAT/MOT/car tax whatever and registering your calf.
As Peter says, for many people this is a hobby. I know this does not reduce the need to take it seriously, but maybe we don't need to be punitive about it. Do we want a society or not?
There are often messages on this board lamenting the number of Dexters which are not registered. Well, I suspect there will now be more. Maybe this doesn't matter - if we are to compare the fees of the Society with those of the Angus or Limousin societies then maybe like them we will have large numbers of unregistered stock. We don't have quite the same breed numbers though.
...Liz
As Peter says, for many people this is a hobby. I know this does not reduce the need to take it seriously, but maybe we don't need to be punitive about it. Do we want a society or not?
There are often messages on this board lamenting the number of Dexters which are not registered. Well, I suspect there will now be more. Maybe this doesn't matter - if we are to compare the fees of the Society with those of the Angus or Limousin societies then maybe like them we will have large numbers of unregistered stock. We don't have quite the same breed numbers though.
...Liz
May I gently suggest that Tirbachdexters are either very new owners of very few dexters who have yet to experience the total meltdown of all planning which can happen in the world of farming livestock or they are such super efficient people that we had all better hope that a little of this super efficiency rubs off on the rest of us ordinary mortals.
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Peter thornton
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:41 pm
OK this could go on for a long time so I'll just add one last thought:
What if Vat returns were optional? Also MOT's, tax and insurance? How many people would be on time in that case?
Well friends, registering your animals IS OPTONAL!!!!!!!!
All I'm trying to say is that every unregistered heifer will probably produce another 10 unregistered calves.
The BCMS, the Inland Revenue and the Customs and Excise can all afford to weild a big stick because THEIR customers don't have a choice. Customers/members of the DCS DO HAVE A CHOICE!
Once the unregistered herd becoimes a certain size then society membership will begin to fall and fees will have to rise just to keep the present infrasructure. Let's all work together to keep everyone on board.
What if Vat returns were optional? Also MOT's, tax and insurance? How many people would be on time in that case?
Well friends, registering your animals IS OPTONAL!!!!!!!!
All I'm trying to say is that every unregistered heifer will probably produce another 10 unregistered calves.
The BCMS, the Inland Revenue and the Customs and Excise can all afford to weild a big stick because THEIR customers don't have a choice. Customers/members of the DCS DO HAVE A CHOICE!
Once the unregistered herd becoimes a certain size then society membership will begin to fall and fees will have to rise just to keep the present infrasructure. Let's all work together to keep everyone on board.