Another Nail in the Coffin

[Jac]

Was recently made aware that in order to take livestock to market/abattoir in a vehicle and trailer over MAM 3500kgs you need to take 35 hours of driving training every 5 years (CPC). It would seem if you passed your test before 97 then your grandfather rights end on 9th Sept 2014. There are no exemptions for local markets/abattoirs (50 km radius). £1,000 fine.

Will the enforcers be waiting outside Melton Mowbray Market at the weekend?

[Rob R]

Do you have any official information on this? Does it count for tractors, too?

I might have to start walking ours there...

[Rob R]

According to the NFU it appears to apply to C & D category licenses, rather than B (car) + E (trailer).

[Jac]

According to the other half it is something to do with the weight of the vehicle as you then move out of B+E category.

Exemptions are here (farmers are near the bottom of the page). The thing is misleading as it implies that C category is just related to lorry and buses which is not the case. I think anyone going to a market would have a hard job proving that they were not doing it for commercial gain.

https://www.gov.uk/driver-cpc-exemptions-examples

see also

http://www.farmersguardian.com/home/mac ... 60.article

there is also this link but you may have to enter it manually.

http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php? ... cpc.21886/

I have to say, the more I read the more confusing it gets esp. when tacho requirements are required for MAM over 3500 kgs.

[Louisa Gidney]

Following on from other recent threads, I would have thought that most of us were not in a "commercial gain" category in selling our livestock, and could prove it by our accounts.

[Jac]

Following on from other recent threads, I would have thought that most of us were not in a "commercial gain" category in selling our livestock, and could prove it by our accounts.

Anyone who repeatedly engages in the same activity for example, advertising stock that they have bred or selling at breed sales or has the requirement to keep accounts I should think would find it difficult to prove that they were not doing it for 'commercial gain' even if they were making a loss every year.

[Rob R]

As it doesn't affect B + E category I'm not sure it'll impact most Dexter keepers either. We tend to get a haulier in if we need anything bigger than we can tow on a B + E.

[Jac]

As it doesn't affect B + E category I'm not sure it'll impact most Dexter keepers either. We tend to get a haulier in if we need anything bigger than we can tow on a B + E.

http://www.ifor-williams.fr/news/tacho/index.htm
I think some Dexter keepers just ignore the trailer laws as the majority of vehicles capable of towing a cattle trailer are over the weight limit and require tachographs etc and if stopped will try to argue that they are not a commercial concern. Perhaps if it was a horse trailer you might get away with it. I think the enforcers may take a different view with cattle if you were stopped outside a livestock market. We have to tow with a 40 year old landrover because it comes in under the weight limit where newer ones don't and we had to have the trailer downgraded. Hopefully, we will not be affected by this new law.

[Hillside Ben]

"Commercial gain" means you are getting paid for the journey. ie transporting for someone else and getting paid. Transporting your own goods or tools to a market place, abbatoir, jobsite etc is not commercial gain. This is something I have been involved with most of my working life in one way or another. Taking your own animals somewhere is not legally considered commercial gain.

[Jac]

Taking your own animals somewhere is not legally considered commercial gain

A tachograph is required to be fitted to record the driver’s hours in a vehicle and trailer combination that exceeds 3500 kg. when used for commercial purposes.

Exempt from this requirement are vehicles used for the non-commercial carriage of goods for personal use, vehicles carrying live animals between a farm and a local market or from a local market to a slaughterhouse and vehicles carrying goods having a maximum weight not exceeding 7.5 tonnes if carrying materials or equipment for the drivers use, in the course of his work, within a 50km radius of the vehicle base.

The sticking point is when you tow your cows somewhere not local.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

I think Jac is right, in fact you do not even need to have any load in the trailer, it is the maximum permissible train weight that counts. The only saving factor seems to be that the police, at least in Scotland, do not seem to have a burning urge to apply the law in this matter. BUT THEY COULD at any time.

When it was new, some years ago, two of our farming clients in Argyll were stopped and charged and as far as I know fined, one had a string of other defects I believe.

My understanding is that VOSA might consider gaining a £2 prize at a show as a financial gain.

I had the livestock body off my Ifor Williams 10ft demountable taken off and put onto a flat bed Isuzu 3.5t this year to overcome these problems. As far as I know the requirement for training does not apply under 7.5t for a single vehicle.

Duncan

[Jac]

We have a police officer who used to work for VOSA he is going round booking any infringement in sight. He is affectionately known as 'Robocop' by the local farmers

[Rob R]

There seems to be a never ending torrent of regulation coming from Europe. No wonder UKIP are doing so well...

[davidw]

I'm convinced that its not Europe that is driving these petty enforcements but our own police and bureaucrats. I have even heard senior politicians complaining that our own people gold-plate the rules to make themselves look good. But quite often they get it wrong. A couple of years ago VOSA and the police were prosecuting people and making them derate their trailer plates to match the capacity of the towing vehicle. The trailer plate applies to the trailer only and has nothing to do with the vehicle that tows it. They were made to stop doing that but only after they had fined several hundred people. I believe the police should have been made to repay the costs they imposed on their victims.
More recently police were stopping tractors and trailers in East Anglia and trying to impose fixed penalty notices because the drivers didn't have class C licences. They (the police) had not heard of F licences.

[SteveM]

i got a new plate for my DP120 free from ifor williams stamped 3.2 ton. they now have a pdf of a letter confirming that its the trailer plate has nothing to do with the towing vehicles capabilities.

We all took the course and test about animal handling, havent heard anything since and it must be about time its due for an update.

Fitted a tacho 4 years ago into shogun, havent heard of anyone being checked or stopped.

On the subject of tractors many now have 40 or 50kph gearboxes. british speed limit is still 20mph??

think the training applies to professional drivers