Woodmagic

[Saffy]

I have a small herd and am keeping to pure Woodmagic lines, except for one rather lovely Nutlin cow which is actually about 75% Woodmagic.

As I say a small herd, I only have 4 mature cows, they were assessed in the last year, one was EX, two VG and one GP, which I think says a great deal for Woodmagic.

I wonder who else is interested in Woodmagic breeding?

Stephanie

[Tim Watson]

Me! But then again perhaps that's not surprising.
I am wading through the Cardiff project report at the moment having been directed to it by Clive on another forum (and wishing I had paid more attention at school).

[LISA]

There are some Pure Woodmagic cattle(with Woodmagic prefix) that have just come on to the "For Sale" section very recently (some with photos) - should anyone be looking for Woodmagic Bloodlines.

[Saffy]

Thanks Lisa...at the moment I not looking for any more animals, I wouldn't mind some Woodmagic semen though if someone has some tucked away somewhere?

Stephanie

[Duncan MacIntyre]

I do hope someone interested in keeping Woodmagic lines alive buys these. I would happily take them myself if they were a bit nearer at hand. Sadly I lost a half sister of these cows to staggers just before the AGM, but fortunately have a heifer out of her who is 100% Woodmagic blood, but as Beryl would emphasise if she did not breed the animal herself it is not a Woodmagic!

Duncan

[Rob R]

I do hope someone interested in keeping Woodmagic lines alive buys these. I would happily take them myself if they were a bit nearer at hand. Sadly I lost a half sister of these cows to staggers just before the AGM, but fortunately have a heifer out of her who is 100% Woodmagic blood, but as Beryl would emphasise if she did not breed the animal herself it is not a Woodmagic!

Duncan

As you say, it ceases to be Woodmagic and will lead to an ever decreasing gene pool of the remaining stock to keep them 'pure', so what is the ultimate goal of keeping the lines distinct (as opposed to building upon them as a foundation)? I see there's an unregistered 6 month old Woodmagic sired heifer on the saleslist at £650, which I just can't fathom.

[Jac]

I think he has just forgot to put the herd book number on the ad.

[Rob R]

I think he has just forgot to put the herd book number on the ad.

Ah, yes, sorry, found it now, via the sire. I was confused by two cows having the same name. It was only registered yesterday too.

[Saffy]

Hello Rob R,

I can only speak for myself - Duncan and Tim will say something different I expect but my reasons for keeping mine pure Woodmagic for as long as possible are mainly that I like mine just as they are now. I have used my own bull for a few years and the calves have been like peas in a pod, easy calvings etc. Also when I first looked for dexters I had seen several other herds before I saw Woodmagic and was delighted to find a herd of even sized cattle, of good conformation and temperament, that milked really well and carried on having calves every year well into the teens without the need for foot trimming etc. This I believe is because for most of her working life Beryl bred and culled for practical reasons!

Other herds would have a few REALLY nice cattle mixed in with a selection of all shapes and sizes, at Woodmagic they were all much of a muchness, that is type. That was what I was looking for, something that could be repeated again and again.

Looking around at other herds and reading discussions on here I know that many dexters need regular foot trimming, not a hassle or expense I want to add to my routine if I can avoid it, I had plenty of that when I had a dairy herd! So if I add new genes ....what will I get?

Does that answer your question?

(Interestingly there seems to be much more interest in Woodmagic breeding from abroad than the UK. I have been asked by breeders from several countries if I am going to put Woodmagic Hedgehog 4th on AI.)

Stephanie

[Rob R]

I agree Stephanie, foot trimming is one of the tasks that the more you do, the more you have to do because you're continually correcting problems that don't get bred out. We have the same with footrot in the sheep - some flocks seem to be constantly turning sheep over and trimming because they have foot problems but I think the problem is the other way round.

The Dexter breed's biggest problem, without doubt, is inconsistency rather than size. I know that some breeders have actively sourced Woodmagic stock as a foundation for a breeding herd, but on the other hand I've also seen some stock that appear to be using the name as a marketing incentive, putting a Woodmagic bull onto anything in order to sell calves so I thought I'd ask for some other opinions. I would hope that everyone is culling hard to type, or at least those using Woodmagic stock, but I worry that there is an element of seeing Woodmagic as a panacea rather than continuing to apply the same principles as Beryl did in less genetically related herds (if that makes sense?), resulting in the type being lost (in all but very few genetically limited herds) and therefore neither a Woodmagic in name nor type.

[Jac]

I agree Stephanie, foot trimming is one of the tasks that the more you do, the more you have to do because you're continually correcting problems that don't get bred out. We have the same with footrot in the sheep - some flocks seem to be constantly turning sheep over and trimming because they have foot problems but I think the problem is the other way round.

The Dexter breed's biggest problem, without doubt, is inconsistency rather than size. I know that some breeders have actively sourced Woodmagic stock as a foundation for a breeding herd, but on the other hand I've also seen some stock that appear to be using the name as a marketing incentive, putting a Woodmagic bull onto anything in order to sell calves so I thought I'd ask for some other opinions. I would hope that everyone is culling hard to type, or at least those using Woodmagic stock, but I worry that there is an element of seeing Woodmagic as a panacea rather than continuing to apply the same principles as Beryl did in less genetically related herds (if that makes sense?), resulting in the type being lost (in all but very few genetically limited herds) and therefore neither a Woodmagic in name nor type.

I think you will struggle to get a rounded opinion with regards to the stock bred by someone well known to us and especially so recently departed.

[Saffy]

Ah yes Rob sheep and feet....sorry to digress! Even worse, nasty smelly things sheep at the best of times, I once had a largish flock 600 welsh half breds and mules and now I just have a few now to train my collies on. I fancied a few nice Herdwick which I bought in Cumbria from Joe Relph at Yew Tree Farm a few years back and an unrelated ram, they are so tough and very little foot trouble....oh and they teach you how to do your fencing!!!

They taste good as well.....

Stephanie

[Colin]

Clearly cattle with poor feet should be culled. But I don't get the bit about never foot trimming. I don't need to foot trim regulary, probably around once every 18 months. But if they're in over winter and living on straw it is inevitable that their hooves are going to out-grow natural wear and tear. If the fields are soft too (our ground tends to be wet), then they will need foot trimming at some point. We shouldn't create some sort of stigma about foot trimming. It's a welfare issue not to keep their feet in order. I've seen some sorry cases, not my own cattle I hasten to add.

Regards,

Colin

[Rob R]

You're right, you do have to keep feet in order but if you cull out the dodgy ones and breed from the self sustaining ones you shouldn't need to regularly trim everything. Trim when you need to, but if you don't need to, as with Woodmagic cows, there is no welfare issue

Wild ungulates don't receive trimming but aren't riddled with lameness problems - the feet are in good order in the Chillingham herd and they're never touched by humans. Foot trimming has become a lot more common in dairy herds round here since the advent of mobile turnover crushes but my dad used to milk Friesians and I can probably count the times on one hand that I recall him foot trimming and there wasn't much lameness in the herd, despite being in a straw fold yard during the winter, and our land is low lying wet, heavy clay.

There was an article in FG recently about trimming and footrot; Vet's View: The myths of foot trimming sheep

[Duncan MacIntyre]

When I first kept Dexters I milked, and fed like dairy cows. Feet grew and I blamed the feeding, but when I stopped milking, changed to grass and hay only, they still grew. Some Dexters grow feet long, and some don't. It may be that if they are doing enough walking on hard ground they will wear enough, but in this part of the country the ground is rarely dry enough or hard enough. I dare say some Woodmagics never need trimming, and some don't, I have never worked out if there is any obvious inherited pattern.

Growing long toes is much more acceptable in my book than any feet which get too long because they are twisted in any way - I don't like to see that in any line.

Duncan