Steer prices

[Broomcroft]

To set my prices, I simply take the beef value at the normal age I send them to the butcher (26-28 months for Dexters), and then work backwards. If and when I sell live, those are the prices, or I don't sell them. People know the prices before they come to the farm and it's take it or leave it.

The price list I have shown above is actually a tiny bit on the low side. Just sent some the the butcher for Christmas and they have done a little bit better than in the list.

Personally I prefer to keep them back for beef instead of selling young, because once born and weaned you've done most of the work and cost, all they do is eat grass and forage after that. So why sell them cheap unless you need the space?

[Jac]

well looking at that price list the most proffitable way to make money out of dexters is to sell the weaned calf at 8months old av weight 180kg and for the sum of £315. easy money no point keeping them on to 24 months to only get £707 all that extra work etc thats 3 times the age but just over twice the amount of money. please do let me have the number or market details who pays £1.70 kg for an 8 month old dexter steer . because down here they wont pay anything like or near that amount. for such an animal. i look forward to chatting to theese people

No pain, no gain. That is what they cost to produce. Clive is absolutely spot on with his attitude. If you cannot get Clive's prices then you have to sell in a bag like me. I did not go into Dexters to kill them but it is a way of ensuring that you only keep or sell the best and it gives your stock a worth. No one is doing the breed a favour in breeding for numbers (or for the sake of it) and selling cheap.

[Broomcroft]

If dexters are so profitable why is Clive crossing them with A.A.

Ann - I cross for various reasons, a lot of which are personal to me and where we are located.

I tend to supply just local butchers and nearly all will take an Angus cross, but very few will take a Dexter. I have to travel quite a long way for my deliveries at the moment just to get to the ones that take Dexters.

It also means that if I want to, I can just take fat stock to my local ABP where I know I will get a good price, it's a 10 minute journey, I can book them in just a few days ahead of delivery, and you get paid within days with good weights as well (tend to be higher than some local butchers). This also makes my crosses less risky if I should have to pack up unexpectedly (I work by myself).

I get the same price whatever the breed from the butchers I supply, so more beef is more money. Also the crosses should have more of the more expensive cuts (I hope!) so the butcher should be happier in that sense.

They should (???) sell better at market if I needed to do this.

I also have always wanted a small breed but not quite as small as Dexters. And rather than breed large Dexters, which I think should remain small, I would rather cross and not interfere, or fall out with other pure breeders.

Plus I just like crossing. I find it fascinating the way you can bring in different traits at a stroke. I started late in life, so to get somewhere with pedigree/pure, I probably wouldn't get very far by the time it came to pack it all up. I like what they are doing in America where to an extent, breeds have gone out of the window and they just breed good composite cattle (starting with pedigree), but keep full records just like you do with pedigree. Some of the cattle are really stunning to look at. You need pedigree as the basis of everything of course.

[Rob R]

I note what you say about weighing them at sales Rob. A commercial farmer would never use that sale again if they received such a price and the auctioneers know it. Dexter owners are fair game. I do believe the only safe route is selling the finished product (meat in a bag) as the housewife is not so prejudiced.

It's not an annoyance purely relating to Dexters - the weekly store sales are just the same. But for the Dexters I think the per kg prices for some of the better quality stock would look good, and for some of the less quality animals, even better, but short of buying them all and weighing them, there's no way of knowing for sure.

[littleacre]

jaci know what you mean by saying dont just breed for numbers but like you all my cattle are good qaulity and from good breeders who show there cattle. the big point i started in this topic was i thought £400 for a dexter steer so young was too exspensive . thats all. the topic went on to how to make money from dexters i think it is a very difficult thing to do . butchers and markets will not readily take pure dexeter at the prices being put up on this thread . i was at ashford market in november and a few dexters went through the ring the comments from the auctioneer and farmers were taking the micky out of the cows. the went on to make a pittance of 65p per kilo and 85p per kilo cull cows and OTM STEERS 85P KILO . like you i sell the meat through private sales but again was my point is can we really get away with charging top money for pure dexter beef ???????? i think people will stop buying and revert to cheaper cuts. point being as hobby farmers part time call it what you will . if we can afford to sell the beef more competively then we should because that dose give the dexter a value and a purpose. after all we cant keep everything we breed and to just sell the poor qaulity animals for breeding to some novice cattle keeper really is the best way to undermine the breed. and make them worthless. after all you dont see many new cattle people start with a continental cross do you.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

If we are producing a first class product, we can reasonably ask for premium prices. We can do this with a clear conscience, no need for guilt trips. There is little doubt that the beef we produce is above average quality. The cost of producing it is almost always above average too - it cannot be done in an intensive fashion, but by extensive feeding on grass. We lose out on the cost of killing and dressing every time due to the unit charge for that in all slaughterhouses, and we need to recoup that extra cost. This cannot be done by increasing the size of the Dexter - that is too destroy the breed, and if we want to reduce costs by increasing carcase size then we need to change breed, or change breed of terminal sire by crossing.

"if we can afford to sell the beef more competively then we should because that dose give the dexter a value and a purpose." What a wonderful sentiment to reduce the value of the breed! One of the challenges I see in the next few years for Dexters is the liklihood that major players will try to reduce the price to suit their purposes. If we remain true to the breed standard, and to our traditional methods of production, and insist that Dexter beef is indeed Dexter 100% and not some sort of cross, then we will continue to have a premium product for the premium end of the market. Attempting to compete with supermarkets is folly.

Duncan

[Rob R]

There is a third option, other than increasing size or price; With regards to the original subject, I don't tend to think that the Dexter breed's main financial disadvantage is not due to the variable costs such as tagging and slaughter, although they are an important aspect that need paying for either by increased end cost or savings elsewhere. The reason I propose is behind the inflated prices is one of fixed costs, or rather the lack of management of them, making the per animal (or per kg) price of the Dexter much higher. A new crush, trailer, etc. can soon run away with some money which, for a small herd, are rarely necessary/can be borrowed/hired. You can also reduce these costs by increasing the size of the herd or, alternatively, collaborating with other local breeders to share more (the same can apply to bulls).

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Rob R has a good point about costs. I put my Dexters onto a proper accounting footing last year and having bought mini tractor, baler etc. Although my cash flow excluding the purchases looked quite good, it was extremely disappointing how the capital expenditure turned into depreciation in the yearly accounts, resulting in a massive loss. This is made worse by the fact that it takes years to build up a herd if you are not going to buy in to do it, and the number slaughtered is taking a while to catch up. With my present outlets I can get 10% over the national average for the week, as published in "The Scottish Farmer". I can't afford to reduce that and sell supermarket mince.

Duncan

[Robert & Alison Kirk]

Forget selling Dexters through the commercial markets, buyers will not pay what they are worth.

Local farmers could not understand why, when we had to change direction in 2002, we decided to retain our Dexters, selling our 50 AAX cows with Charolais X calves at foot and 500 Welsh Mules to farmers in Cumbria - we are now well respected by local farmers and our Dexter beef is held in high regard. We actively promoted our Dexters in the early days and have several local outlets who only want pedigree Dexter beef. We work damned hard, getting excellent returns for our animals, but are always mindful of finding ways to improve our cattle management and keeping an eye on our variable costs.

How many Dexter breeders have actually calculated how much is costs to produce a kilo of beef - you will have a shock - our figures produced in July 2010 gave us £3.90kg. We slaughter between 19 & 25 months.

Direct cost of producing Boram Dexter Beef £348.24 per animal Average daily cost over 700 days (23 months) 49.3p per animal Average d/w (short & non-short, heifers & steers) 142.75kgs per animal Average beef yeild @ 62% of deadweight 88.50kgs per animal Average income @ £9.05kg £800.92 per animal

In autumn 2010 we began selling cattle that had improved management from weaning and we were using our red clover silage and our costs per animal improved - all the above figures improved. Our average beef yield increased to 65% of deadweight and our average income was £917.67. Another 12 months on we regularly get over £1,000 from chefs. The butcher and farm shop are around £650 - £700.

We worked this out using direct costs: home produced forage (inc net wrap, plastic wrap & diesel); rent/water/electric; vet & med; minerals; straw - locally purchased; abattoir costs; own transport of abattoir/delivery to customers. We did not include our own labour (no contractors employed); machinery finance or bank charges.

The cattle are paying for themselves, but like many other tenant farmer's wives Alison has to work to keep the household bills paid, so works full-time elsewhere.

Happy New Year to you all.

Best Wishes

Robert & Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters

[Rob R]

In autumn 2010 we began selling cattle that had improved management from weaning and we were using our red clover silage and our costs per animal improved - all the above figures improved. Our average beef yield increased to 65% of deadweight and our average income was £917.67. Another 12 months on we regularly get over £1,000 from chefs. The butcher and farm shop are around £650 - £700.

For comparison purposes, how much extra did the improved management regime cost you?

We are in the process of replacing our winter housing, which should yield improvements from weaning and make the whole process more efficient, particularly in terms of labour.

[Robert & Alison Kirk]

Rob

Seed purchased from Cotswold Seeds in Spring 2008 - £1170 for a 4 year ley x 23 acres - all cultivations done by ourselves. To date no fertiliser used as the clovers are releasing their own nitrogen into the soil.

It is our intention this spring to take some soil samples to check P&K levels with the view to putting some potash phosphorous on the 23 acres if necessary.

The protein that we are getting from the clovers has increased our weights by 8% to 10% per animal, which in turn has increased returns for our beef. The clover ration is the only feed used to fatten our Dexters - no added costs for concentrates.

Best wishes

Robert Kirk
Boram Dexters

[Rob R]

We are running a similar system to yourselves and achieving similar results, it seems. Due to the nature & layout of our farm all the 'cultivated' forages are away from the main site so we only use these (mainly lucerne which, like the red clover, is like rocket fuel) for winter feeding.

[Jac]

There is a third option, other than increasing size or price; With regards to the original subject, I don't tend to think that the Dexter breed's main financial disadvantage is not due to the variable costs such as tagging and slaughter, although they are an important aspect that need paying for either by increased end cost or savings elsewhere. The reason I propose is behind the inflated prices is one of fixed costs, or rather the lack of management of them, making the per animal (or per kg) price of the Dexter much higher. A new crush, trailer, etc. can soon run away with some money which, for a small herd, are rarely necessary/can be borrowed/hired. You can also reduce these costs by increasing the size of the herd or, alternatively, collaborating with other local breeders to share more (the same can apply to bulls).

I cannot agree with your philosphy on cost cutting. What is next? No worming, don't get the vet, don't get their feet trimmed, never mind minerals... As for borrowing bullsXX!!!! What are a few diseases between Dexters.

[Rob R]

I cannot agree with your philosphy on cost cutting. What is next? No worming, don't get the vet, don't get their feet trimmed, never mind minerals... As for borrowing bullsXX!!!! What are a few diseases between Dexters.

No business nor individual can survive if they don't keep a cap on their costs. You can certainly cut out worming if your animals don't have a worm burden, trimming if they don't have overgrown feet and the vet if they are not sick.

If you manage a small herd (say three animals) with another similar sized herd and you share a bull (even share grazing) you have immediately cut your service costs in half with no deteriment to herd health. It is the equivalent of doubling your herd size without doubling your costs. It is all very well being super careful for disease but you can't keep a different bull for every single cow.

[Broomcroft]

I think a lot of people worm because it's what you do. We've had all sorts of things happen over the years that point to worms, very runny etc, but have carried our egg counts on poo (can't spell feaces!) and have never had worms in 8 years, so it would have been a waste of time and money. Except that is for lungworm which we seem to get for some reason. Apart from lungworm in the last couple of years, we have never wormed at all.