Steer prices

[littleacre]

so what do all of you think a fair price is for a non short 6 7 month old steer average size not a runt just a normal good beast that will go on and finish ok. also what price do people think a decent cow would be around the 3 to 4 year old empty and again in calf. ??????????? yes down here in essex at colchester and even in ashford ive seen suckled angus x and sussex x making £ 400 500 each with stores making 800 to 980. but my original post was 400pounds for a just weaned steer. A DEXTER STEER i will stick my head out hear and say i think 200pounds is more realistic and an empty dexter cow not top notch show stock but just good qaulity beefy sort non short i think 400 to 500 would be a realistic price what are your views on this it will be interesting to get some views on this as this may be a factor in what we charge for our bull to cover a cow . if people think 400 for a just weaned steer is a fair price then surley we could charge more than the average 35 pounds to get our cow covered . and that is when it all starts going wrong to exspensive to do anything and thus people will try to breed for proffit and not the breed standard

[domsmith]

To me its simple, they are worth what they weigh. Clive has a table for live weights approx for age.
Its all about argueing your price for weight. so 1.7 or 1.8p/kg i would be happy with off the farm.

cull cows 400kg must be worth 4-500.

Thats if im selling.

if im buying then..... ill give you £150 for your calf and £250 for your cow

[ann]

I personally would not sell an in -calf cow with calf at foot for less than £600 (non short) if it was still of a productive age and after they reach around 8 yrs old they usually are permanent fixtures as I hate to think of older cows being passed from pillar to post. If I have any female stock for sale I usually try to sell them as 2nd or 3rd calvers and halter trained or at least easy to handle.

so what do all of you think a fair price is for a non short 6 7 month old steer average size not a runt just a normal good beast that will go on and finish ok

I think unless the calf was very well grown at 6mths that £200 would be certainly more than I would pay. I don't usually wean my calves until they are around 9 - 10 mths and this gives them a good start in life. Until recently it was fairly common for the price per kg LW to be around £1.30 but as with all things supply and demand are usually the guide. the prices for steers at the rare breed sale in Oct were steers born 2010 14 forward average price 216gns top price 290gns
steers born 2011 8 forward top price 195gns average 136gns and there was a few people bidding. The majority non short.

Re bull service costs. I always think this is a difficult one as if you currently use A.I you are looking at cost of around £60 per service if you include your straw an some storage and if the cow comes over another £60 so if your cow does not hold first time you are already out of pocket.

Until recently I was charging £30 per service plus £7.50 per week grazing for a cow and calf or £5 for a heifer, however I decided last year not to take any boarders as I just didn't have enough grass with the dry weather and I probably will stay that way in future as it is far less hassle. Plus we seem to have far more people prepared to hire bulls out around here now, so that is a help for the people with only a couple of cows.

[Rob R]

this really is an interesting subject. the post about keeping 60 cows etc and turning a proffit of 12k per year. that is £230 per week. has the gentleman taken into account the acerage either to buy or rent input costs ie food car or whatlike for the person getting the wage fert costs and all the other costs involved looking after 60 head. vets costs etc. ????? £230 per week for a 365 day year ????.

Yes, that is an estimate of net profit, I personally can't see why anyone would sign up for doing all the work you highlight for anything less & it is only £66 per head per annum. Given some of the gross incomes stated for finished steers I expect some here are making more than £200 per steer.

[Rob R]

also some one said dexter cull cows dont get the price either. but they do. dealers want beef and they mind the breed. i bought a cull dexter cow off a dealer last year and it cost me over £450

If that was a reliable cull price the base price for breeding stock would be higher or someone would be making a good living buying up Dexters & taking them to cull market.

[Jac]

The project only goes into unit costs and sales figures Jac. No account is taken of personal circumstances, whether you have a mortgage or whatever. And no account was taken of the volumes you are producing. So it's simply looking at the costs of breeding, feeding, fertility and output values. The object being just to see who has the largest "gross margin" to play with. Whether that turns into a profit or loss for the farm would depend on a lot more as you say, what overhead you were carrying and if you had 3 tractors but only needed one, etc etc.

Quite right Clive. If you wiped away the advantage and looked at starting from scratch I can just see the banks rushing to lend money to start a Dexter cattle breeding venture! Nobody is taking into account the true cost of production . Everyone is quoting what they think is 'reasonable' in their eyes. Suggestions have been made regarding paying the £ per kg for animals however, many on here don't even want to pay that. Supply and demand. The consumer doesn't want to pay the supermarket price either until they have no choice.

[Broomcroft]

Jac - The point is that the project is not to look at the profitability of cattle farming per se, it looks at the difference between one system and another, we came out re unit profitability, end of. According to Eblex, hardly any cattle farms, especially suckler producers, make good profits, or indeed any profit. In working out those figures, they add in notional rent, and notional family wages if the farm is owned and family run. That makes the figures comparable. We do better with sheep than cattle.

With regards to weaners, we charged around £275 at 8-9 months, at old prices 2 years ago. So I suppose today I'd be asking £325 for Dexter, £450 for a cross? But I would not pay that much at 7 months because IMO it needs feeding to ensure it doesn't loose any growth, as well as being younger. But I have never sold one animal, it has always been in batches of 6's, and one batch of 10. Some people willing to pay proper prices may not be prepared to even go and look at one calf, well I wouldn't unless it was next door! So if I were desparate to sell the steer, I'd just accept any reasonable offer.

I don't what it would get at market. Not a lot in Shrewsbury I think. I saw an 8 month old AA-Dexter cross, that would have been worth £800-1000 at 24 months fetch £120. Not many bid for it because it had been registered as a Dexter X on the passport, whereas it should have been registered as an Angus X (because that was the bull). I nearly bid for it but I'm a closed farm.

[Broomcroft]

To me its simple, they are worth what they weigh. Clive has a table for live weights approx for age.

Here's the table I look at. It's based on figures given me by people on this forum and everything in between is just simple linear. It's based on my Dexters which are mainly average to large'ish and all non-shorts.



The price used as a base is probably a bit low at the moment. It takes no account of the breeding value of a heifer, just beef. I wouldn't follow it religiously, it just gives me a reference point when people ask for prices. I will adjust in my head according to the animal.

[Jac]

Picking up on what you said about accepting the price for the steer on desparation Clive. If the breed is to be taken seriously then every steer like every child should be planned for. You cannot just keep churning them out with no outlet. It is regretable that the breed society relies on income from registrations because there is no incentive to 'put the brakes on' when necessary.

Taking Ann's price for a cow and calf. If you look at Clive's list for heifers (for one calving at 2 years) then Ann is giving her calf away for free.

[ann]

Taking Ann's price for a cow and calf. If you look at Clive's list for heifers (for one calving at 2 years) then Ann is giving her calf away for free.

That is why I do not sell many cows, but occasionally something comes along that you would like to keep and to keep your herd at a manageable level something has to go.

You only have to visit the sales or look on the cattle for sale prices to see that for the north of england I am not giving my cattle away and despite clive's prices how many people do you know that are buying in steers and giving £1.75 per kg L.W I don't know any and if they are out there please let me know where they are as I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to meet them

That is why I beef most of my heifers which I have to say being female I hate doing it. I have a lovely one going soon and she is really to nice to butcher but who will pay around £800 for a empty heifer!

If dexters are so profitable why is Clive crossing them with A.A

[Rob R]

Taking Ann's price for a cow and calf. If you look at Clive's list for heifers (for one calving at 2 years) then Ann is giving her calf away for free.

I assume you are referring to the £600+ figure for a cow with calf at foot? With the 24m heifer at £600.95? It depends what price you put on calves & longevity as a cow will have had at least one extra calf that you won't get back and breeding stock usually depreciates. At 24 - 30m a commercially-reared (ie no effect from pedigree or showing value) heifer will (market prices being stable) be at her peak value.

As she referred to the auction price, this is the only indicator I can easily use to judge supply and demand. Based on that (from memory, because the auction centre still haven't posted the Autumn results on the website) steers were in higher demand than cows & calves. Looking at the Spring sale prices, cow with calf av. 510gns, cows av. 293gns. Unfortunately steers aren't listed, so we can't compare them with the averages ann quoted, above.

[Rob R]

You only have to visit the sales or look on the cattle for sale prices to see that for the north of england I am not giving my cattle away and despite clive's prices how many people do you know that are buying in steers and giving £1.75 per kg L.W I don't know any and if they are out there please let me know where they are as I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to meet them

That's the annoying thing about the rare breeds sales (and even store sales) - none of the stock are weighed and it seems like the ideal opportunity while they are in the market, especially given how few people have weigh facilities back home. It would have been very interesting to compare prices with weights and see what the per kg LW price was. Based on the 2010 born average of 216gns (£226.80) and 2011 136gns (£142.80) they must have been, for a £1.75/kg price, av. weights of 129.6kg and 81.6kg respectively.

[Jac]

It isn't a question of market value. It is a question of what they cost to produce. If they cost more to produce than you receive back then surely it is sensible not to breed them at all (other than for your own personal use).

This is the fundamental problem with the Dexter breed - people lose their way, they start off buying a pet (s) but soon become aware of the costs. It isn't acceptable to just leave them in a field they have to be bred from to justify their existance - Dexter Mania!

Clive has woken up and smelled the coffee. He is selling what the market knows and expects through the established route.

I note what you say about weighing them at sales Rob. A commercial farmer would never use that sale again if they received such a price and the auctioneers know it. Dexter owners are fair game. I do believe the only safe route is selling the finished product (meat in a bag) as the housewife is not so prejudiced.

[littleacre]

well looking at that price list the most proffitable way to make money out of dexters is to sell the weaned calf at 8months old av weight 180kg and for the sum of £315. easy money no point keeping them on to 24 months to only get £707 all that extra work etc thats 3 times the age but just over twice the amount of money. please do let me have the number or market details who pays £1.70 kg for an 8 month old dexter steer . because down here they wont pay anything like or near that amount. for such an animal. i look forward to chatting to theese people

[Rob R]

I don't think there is such a thing as 'farming by numbers' - it's down to the individual to work within the market prices for inputs & outputs and turn a profit.

The thing to remember is that with weaned calves you may get half the revenue at a third of the age, but you also have the costs of the cow to consider, so it's not necessarily more profitable.