Transport Certificate of Competence (UK) - From 5 January 2008

[SteveM]

I have had an add up of the shows & sales I may attend this year, mostly around 80-90 miles by shortest route, so will I need a tacho?

I will be making around 10 journeys a year, average journey time perhaps 2.5 hours.

Now if I understand it correctly I will need a tacho.

However if I am only moving animals 40 miles I wont, but will be able to travel back and forward all day, every day.

Something seems to not add up!

[Martin]

Going to shows is your hobby isn't it? I think you would be exempt from the rules in that case. Though don't take my word on it :;): I think if you check up it has to be an economic purpose like going to market or the butcher.
I doubt very much if anyone other than Ministry of Transport people know the rules so the chances of getting 'nicked' would be fairly low.
I was involved in an accident a short while ago ( I was a passenger by the way) the pick up and and Ifor Wlliams trailer where both write offs, main A2 into Dover blocked for 3 hours whilst the bull we where transporting was rescued. The truck/trailer combination was as the rules state 'not legal'. As you can imagine the place was alive with the boys in blue, but not one questioned us about it.

[Tim Watson]

This all sounds very painful! What I am worried about is that if you have registered to get the VAT back (which we haven't yet but are thinking about it) even if you are not planning to sell anything for two years (mentioned elsewhere) you have effectively stepped across the line from producing for your own consumption to a business. In addition, the Gov't Gateway system used for all online filing/access allows any government agency - VOSA, HMRC, Police, DEFRA etc...... access the central database to check what you are doing as you are assigned one gov't password code. It is time I think to carefully consider the wider implications of decisions such as registering for VAt to recover some costs but trying to tell VOSA or Police that what you are doing is a hobby/non commercial.

[Broomcroft]

I have just spoken to the traffic examiner and also the tacho calibration centre. Both say there is no derogation for showing and there is no derogation for "rare" breeds. In fact showing is definitely considered to be commercial (they said).

If your vehicle is pre-May 2006 then they can fit an analog tacho at a cost of about £700 in total.

If it is post May 2006, then it has to be a digital tacho, for which you need the tacho £1000, a downloader £450, a company card £40, and a card for every driver at £40 each. You need to download the info every 28 days.

If caught you have a heavy fine, your vehicle has a thingy (forgotten the word) put on it which ensures that you have a tacho fitted within 28 days of being knabbed by the fuzz.

One woman has been done towing a trailer of flowers to a show with her car!!!

Unless we learn more to persuade us otherwise, all our business will now be focused on completely local. The local market, the local abattoir. Our only local abattoir is a commercial one, so that almost certainly means we shall cease to do pure dexters and concentrate on more commercial sized cattle. I think there's one other we could use, but I don't like it. Our nearest OTM except for the one that won't give you your meat back, is 70 miles away.

What bunch of total idiots, sat in some committee somewhere being paid a fortune, thought of all this total cr***p. This is apparently another EU thing, and every time something like this happens I am one step nearer to voting for UKIP.



Edited By Broomcroft on 1267534324

[bjreroberts]

Having just moved a bale of haylage with the tractor along the A38 I am wondering what you have to do to get stopped.

Twice in the journey I had a police traffic car behind me when turning right with no working indicators and to make me feel even more guilty Isuddenly remembered my tax disc expired on Sunday!

I am still worried about these regulations and will definitely have to start looking for a 7.5t instead of the 4x4. Until then I will just have to chance it, which in effect we have all been doing for 3 or 4 years!

[Broomcroft]

Someone told me the limit for tractors is a 15m radius of the vehicle base for a tractor but that hasn't been confirmed.

[areoch]

Clive,
Thanks for posting the results of your research - was beginning to feel a bit like someone 'blowing into the wind' , by simply warning others of the potential breaching of the regulations. Reading the latest VOSA regs, derogations etc etc must be done very carefully and can take forever - best to do what you did and speak to officialdom, however painstaking it proves to be, instead of hiding one's head in the sand.
After spending the £1500- £1600 come the other questions, like 'how does the tacho know if you are towing a trailer or not' , how do you avoid apparently breaking the law when you are using the vehicle for other purposes, private, solo, etc.. So it goes on.
Morton, Arran.

[Basil]

People like ouselves with just a few cattle will not be able to afford this extra expense. We only have one small show within the mileage allowed, even taking an animal to slaughter is almost 40 miles. Unless allowances are made for shows, a lot of people will just not bother showing anymore.
Kelvin & Lottie
Sedgefen Dexters

[Broomcroft]

In spite of the fact the guy I spoke to was absolutely certain that showing was applicable and required a tacho, personally, I would ignore it. I think you would be unlucky to meet an official who would be willing to book you if you are clearly a smallholder who loves showing and it is your hobby. But strictly speaking, he said it needs a tacho.

What a load of total rubbish!!! I can't really believe it.

[natmadaboutdexters]

I was under the impression that the 3.5 ton limit is the towing weight limit therefore does not include the vehicle doing the towing, just the trailer and its contents. As you have previously stated the 4x4 and trailer will probably reach the weight limit by themselves. The vehicle has to be capable of towing 3.5 tonnes.


Natasha

[domsmith]

I have not taken much notice of this post, but seeing you all get more and more mad made we look at the vosa web site.
it is quite clear, and i dont understand why we dont know anything about it. as registered keepers of livestock why have we not been written to. this will sink all shows unless the derogations are clarified.
Its clear about weights, vehicle and trailer with a gross weight of over 3.5 tons. no doubt its vehcile and trailer.

if the 50km is as the crow flies, i think i will get away with it for my daily needs but shows will be off.

screwed by the ec again

this is prime killing the countryside legislation.

[bjreroberts]

Natasha - unfortunately it is the "maximum gross weight of the vehicle and trailer added together, or the towing vehicle’s maximum train weight, whichever is the smaller".

The rules apply even if you don't use the trailer to its capacity, so just by towing a trailer capable of carrying 3.5t you need to comply.

[SteveM]

A 50km radius gets me to driffield, just clips the corner of lincolnshire showground, would need a 115km radius to take in otley, emley, thirsk and melton mowbrey all destinations I was planning on going to.

usefull website is

http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm

zoom in on your location and select radius before clicking on map

What I cant understand is the 100km carrying "goodS" but only 50km with livestock.

ps up at this time checking heifer close to calving

[SteveM]

Have emailed vosa for clarification, and also had a quote from an independent fitter for analogue tacho into a 96 shogun of £595 plus vat.

Dont intend doing anything till its confirmed that one is definately needed.

To stay legal below 3.5 ton looks like a 3dr freelander and a TA5 ifor williams derated to 1.8 or 2 tonne, would give approx 1 tonne for cattle.

[Martin]

That will bugger me then, Sussex cows are around 600kg + and I normally transport 4 at a time or 3 cows plus calves.