I Didn't Want Twins

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:46 pm

My best heifer has just given birth....to twins...I didn't want twins but never mind. I haven't seen any history of twins anywhere in her breeding but I haven't been right back in time. I don't know the sex yet. She' a brilliant mom, just popped them out unaided one straight after the other, and they are both trying to suckle almost immediately. Both were born in the field less than an hour ago.

I'll go out later and make sure there's not another one !!!

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Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:12 pm

Now, now Clive - don't be greedy! :;):

They are a tidy size for twins aren't they!

Stephanie

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:38 pm

Well there aren't any more, but one's a female and one's a male, which means the female is a freemartin doesn't it?

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:48 pm

Yes Clive it will be a freemartin, another one for the butcher then.

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:12 pm

It doesn't have to be a Freemartin does it? Don't you very occasionally get a twin to a bull that will breed, I thought we did once with our herd of milkers but I may be wrong it was a long time ago when I was a child!Why not ask the vet next time he/she is at your farm, you don't have anything to loose.

Stephanie

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:55 pm

Saffy is correct, it doesnt always follow, although it will be in most cases.

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:59 pm

What a pity. Saffy is correct, it doesn't always apply although it usually is a freemartin
Beryl (Woodmagic)

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:13 pm

You have a 4% chance of a twin female to male being fertile. But even if she is, you need to ask if in the long term you want to increase the chances of your herd having twins. I strongly suspect that twins in dairy cattle, eg friesian/holstein, are becoming much more common than they were 30 years ago. It is difficult to know if that is because there is an increase in genetic tendency to twins or because of better feeding, maybe a combination of both. One of our dairy herds of about 150 here had 33 sets of twins one year.
I did have twin dexters once, it did the cow no good, had a vaginal prolapse the next year and it got worse and worse. One twin was short legged, and she was sold at Stoneleigh, the other was long legged and I did intend to keep her but she did not settle after 3 services. By that time I could see she was going to be a very big Dexter so she went in the freezer.
If you want you can have blood tests done on the heifer, or just wait and see.

Duncan

AlisonKirk · Post by **AlisonKirk** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:23 am

Clive - We've had two sets of twins over the years. The first set 2 x bull calves (1 x short & 1 x non-short) - cow went on to calve as normal for a number of years. Great to have two bull calves as we were able to claim 2 x subsidies on each calf!

The second set - both heifers, again 1 x short & 1 x non-short) in 2002 (I think) ..... dam is still calving & no problems experienced.

No problem with one of each, you can just beef both animals. If they had both been male calves you would most likely have beefed them anyway.

They look nice calves.

Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:29 am

Yes Alison, we've also had 2 x female twins before (Chilli and Pepper) and they also have gone on to breed normally and only had singles.

I have been investigating on the web about the heritability of twins and also about freemartins. Heritability appears (from the very little information I could find) to not be very heritable. It occurs in different breeds in differing amounts and does seem to be more common in dairy. Apparently 2.5% of Herefords are twins but only 1% of Angus. But as I say, I found very little to read so far.

Has anyone else any experience in whether twins will appear down the line if you were to breed from a twin? Is it remote or common?

I also read that the dam will often abandon the freemantle female calf as though she knows it cannot breed. One chap said all his freemantles had been abandoned. I went out this morning and the female had indeed been abandoned, but she had obviously fed. She wasn't just in hiding, she lay there for a long time right at the other end of the field. So I gave her a boost of colostrum, left her for 2 hours and when she perked up, I carried her down the field to mom, who immediately started to fuss her.

Stephanie - Having carried the one, I would say they are about 20-22 kilos each.

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Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:38 pm

Blimey Clive they are a good size for dexter twins I can only remember the weights of twins by a Charolais bull.

We had twin Friesian cows that were - rather foolishly put to a Charolais bull two years running. (This was foolhardiness not greed on my part, I took over the day to day management of the herd at a very young age and all the not so good cows went to the same beef bull - I didn't think about the consequences and certainly didn't expect twins again.) For some reason Charolais produce more twins.

Anyway they both produced twins two years running and very big twins at that. They all weighed between 112 and 125 pounds and frankly ruined the cows, which were big strong, square framed types, neither calved again, the one pretty much was pensioned off and then went to the knacker. Lesson learned!

Stephanie

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:57 pm

As part of our veal business we get the twn heifers as well as the bulls from our supplier farms.
i noticed 1 had what appeared to be a normal looking udder so got the vet to have a look and he thought she would be normal, she calved 3 weeks ago and is a cracker of a heifer!

you see most of the other twins dont get normal udder formation, but we do have another 1 i have noticed that looks promising.

we had angus twins early this year bull and heifer. the cow could not seem to cope with keeping tabs on 2 calves. as long as she had 1 with her she was happy. the bull had a knee problem and was constantly left behind so in the end i brought him in and am rearing him on our volac machine.

dom

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:49 am

Dom - are you saying that if the udder looks normal on the young calf at this stage then it might be a normal female?

Here they are now....it's fun having twins around....sometimes she hides one at a time, ad then she has both with her as well like this morning....

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domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:11 pm

bit early to tell at this stage, but most of my twins have very flat deflated udder. as they get older the fertile one started to sag down and fill out.

it might be a load of rubbish i am talking. :p

dom

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:39 pm

Well it seems that the infertile females have been affected by the male hormones whilst in development. So the problem of freemartins is not genetic, it "physical". As far as I can tell, the genes of a female freemartin will be exactly the same as if she were not a freemartin. Presumably, the infertile female freemartin will display unfemale (is that a word?) characteristics, so perhaps what you say Dom does make some sense. It has logic to it.