Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone would care to comment on Arthritis in the Dexter breed. I read reciently an insinuation that the shortleg will get arthritis. Just wondered if this is a big problem in the UK as it doesnt seem to be one here in Australia. Am also interested in any thoughts on the causes of this problem (that is - if it is a problem!).
Thanks
Kathleen.
Arthritis
Hi Kathleen
It certainly is quite common in the short legs I have two girls both the same age one short and one non short, the short legged is like an old lady and has definetly got it starting in one hip, her mother developed the same problem around her age 14yrs, the other is non short and is still like a spring chicken.
As for you not having it is Oz, most people with arthritis recover or are much better if they move to warm climates, I suffer with my back, but I'm fine when I'm in a hot climate.
Ann
It certainly is quite common in the short legs I have two girls both the same age one short and one non short, the short legged is like an old lady and has definetly got it starting in one hip, her mother developed the same problem around her age 14yrs, the other is non short and is still like a spring chicken.
As for you not having it is Oz, most people with arthritis recover or are much better if they move to warm climates, I suffer with my back, but I'm fine when I'm in a hot climate.
Ann
Thank-you Ann,
That is interesting... I saw a number of Dexters when i was in the UK (shorts and longs) and i only actually saw one case of what the owner called 'arthritis'. To my eye (and thoughts) there were other contributing factors to the animals inability to get about.
In anycase - here in Australia we do have Dexters in the Cold also ...and i am not saying that a warmer climate may not be the reason we do not see as much of it - but we do have people here in Oz (and i am thinking of a particular lady that lives here on the Tablelands) that suffer from arthritis regardless of the weather and it is 'genetic' in humans as well as having deit and other contributing factors which highten the symptoms.
I was just a little amazed by the sweeping insinuation that ALL shortlegs would get Arthritis at some time in there lives and particularly by the age of X when i have shortlegs which are 12 and know of others in other herds of a similar 'old' age who still get around like lambs in the spring.
Perhaps like other genetic problems (example: ovarian systs) it is more a matter of bloodlines there in the UK as well as maybe the different way you keep your cattle in the winter?
Kind Regards
Kathleen.
That is interesting... I saw a number of Dexters when i was in the UK (shorts and longs) and i only actually saw one case of what the owner called 'arthritis'. To my eye (and thoughts) there were other contributing factors to the animals inability to get about.
In anycase - here in Australia we do have Dexters in the Cold also ...and i am not saying that a warmer climate may not be the reason we do not see as much of it - but we do have people here in Oz (and i am thinking of a particular lady that lives here on the Tablelands) that suffer from arthritis regardless of the weather and it is 'genetic' in humans as well as having deit and other contributing factors which highten the symptoms.
I was just a little amazed by the sweeping insinuation that ALL shortlegs would get Arthritis at some time in there lives and particularly by the age of X when i have shortlegs which are 12 and know of others in other herds of a similar 'old' age who still get around like lambs in the spring.
Perhaps like other genetic problems (example: ovarian systs) it is more a matter of bloodlines there in the UK as well as maybe the different way you keep your cattle in the winter?
Kind Regards
Kathleen.
Hello Richard,
Yes i thought stating 'all' shortlegs was _overstated_ also!
But i am sorry that i do not see that it is logical that shortlegs would be more suseptible - i would agree that animals with bad feet and leg jionts may be more suseptible given the strain on those jionts - much like that which is caused by winter stableing (according to my vet) ..but there are longs and mediums with these feet/leg problems also ...and i do have a couple of 8 year olds who do not have the best feet jionts and who most definitley do not have arthritis!
I did have a Jersey that became arthritic when she was 21 and her feet were pretty bad by then also but the arthritis was not in her feet/legs but in her hip/pelvis jionts
I suppose it is one of those myths that come about because some people put two and two together and come up with six!
Kind Regards
Kathleen.
Yes i thought stating 'all' shortlegs was _overstated_ also!
But i am sorry that i do not see that it is logical that shortlegs would be more suseptible - i would agree that animals with bad feet and leg jionts may be more suseptible given the strain on those jionts - much like that which is caused by winter stableing (according to my vet) ..but there are longs and mediums with these feet/leg problems also ...and i do have a couple of 8 year olds who do not have the best feet jionts and who most definitley do not have arthritis!
I did have a Jersey that became arthritic when she was 21 and her feet were pretty bad by then also but the arthritis was not in her feet/legs but in her hip/pelvis jionts
I suppose it is one of those myths that come about because some people put two and two together and come up with six!
Kind Regards
Kathleen.
Hi Kathleen,
Sadly I have to admit to not being a great knowledge on Dexters. As yet I don't have any!
However I treat people for all sorts of "structural" problems for a living.
If anything is wrong with the feet,( the foundations,) it puts unnecassary strains on the structure above. Therefore if someone has fallen arches it will affect not just their way of going but also they will be prone to knee, lower back and hip problems, including if not especially arthritis, if it goes untreated,(arch supports). Similar effects if there are other "deformities" of foot or ankle, especially if it causes feet to stick out at 10 to 2, or walk pigeon toed, as it skews the pressure on the joints above.
Cattle are I assume the same which is why in my dairy herd I bred for feet and legs and temperament in front of everything else because they needed to walk into the parlour and not kick my head off before producing their "white gold"! I also gave their feet any attention they needed. Cattle can have "flat feet" which tend to be pushed forward and stick out, or feet like an elfs shoe, I can't remember what that is called, which affects their way of going and must put terrific pressures on the joints further up and of course a million types of lameness!
When I sold my herd a few years back I proudly put my oldest cow through the ring as an exhibit, she was 18 years old and walked around completely sound with her 12th calf at foot and she had a tiny bit of holstein in her!
Perhaps Duncan can tell us if similar causes and effects are found in cattle.
Stephanie
Sadly I have to admit to not being a great knowledge on Dexters. As yet I don't have any!
However I treat people for all sorts of "structural" problems for a living.
If anything is wrong with the feet,( the foundations,) it puts unnecassary strains on the structure above. Therefore if someone has fallen arches it will affect not just their way of going but also they will be prone to knee, lower back and hip problems, including if not especially arthritis, if it goes untreated,(arch supports). Similar effects if there are other "deformities" of foot or ankle, especially if it causes feet to stick out at 10 to 2, or walk pigeon toed, as it skews the pressure on the joints above.
Cattle are I assume the same which is why in my dairy herd I bred for feet and legs and temperament in front of everything else because they needed to walk into the parlour and not kick my head off before producing their "white gold"! I also gave their feet any attention they needed. Cattle can have "flat feet" which tend to be pushed forward and stick out, or feet like an elfs shoe, I can't remember what that is called, which affects their way of going and must put terrific pressures on the joints further up and of course a million types of lameness!
When I sold my herd a few years back I proudly put my oldest cow through the ring as an exhibit, she was 18 years old and walked around completely sound with her 12th calf at foot and she had a tiny bit of holstein in her!
Perhaps Duncan can tell us if similar causes and effects are found in cattle.
Stephanie
Stephanie Powell
Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
https://www.facebook.com/Duffryn-Dexter ... 609196773/
Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
https://www.facebook.com/Duffryn-Dexter ... 609196773/
-
groubearfarm
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:52 pm
- Location: Tiverton Devon
I have a ten year old beloved short legged cow who was diagnosed with arthritis two years ago. On the suggestion of a friend who had had success with her dog, I started giving her green-lipped mussel extract 300mgs daily and 3000mgs glucosamine sulphate (my vet also agreed it worth a try) and so far she is doing really well, two calves later there is very little loss of muscle and she is still game for a frolick!! Mind, I have her feet trimmed annually and she gets lots of TLC and is rather spoilt!! There is life after arthritis.
Fiona
Fiona
Fiona Miles
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon
Sylvia, this is from an extract from an article I wrote, may be of use to hubby. Sorry to everyone else as it isn't what this site is for but I expect a few of you have arthritis too!
Arthritis is caused by an accumulation of uric acid in the body, some people get rid of the toxins more efficiently than others and some peoples diets will give their body a heavier toxic load than others. Usually the first places that we notice the effects of arthritis are at sites of old injuries but as we age we may start to notice the problem in other areas as well due to “wear and tear” especially if we exercise a lot, or work very hard physically.
Unlike osteoarthritis rheumatoid arthritis may come and go spontaneously. There is no sure cure and the underlying causes are not fully understood but physical and emotional stresses may play some part in triggering an attack.
Rheumatoid arthritis is more common in women than men and is classified as an autoimmune disease. The first attack often follows a viral infection or an illness.
Osteoarthritis is characterized by degeneration of the smooth gliding surfaces of the joints. There are some natural ways to improve and ease the problem.
Some foodstuffs have a negative effect on arthritis and can exacerbate the symptoms these can be different for one person than for another but often include, citrus fruits and their juices, alcohol, coffee, strong tea, fizzy drinks, aubergines, tomatoes, potatoes, red meats especially pork and pig products.
Certain supplements can help, particularly cod liver oil. One of its chief ingredients the omega 3 fatty acids helps to dampen inflammation and in a study, daily cod liver oil supplementation for three months brought about significant reductions in stiffness and pain caused by rheumatoid arthritis. There is evidence that this oil may be useful to combat osteoarthritis as well, due to its vitamin D content. Research shows that people with the highest intake of this vitamin have the lowest risk of joint degeneration. Also worth trying are vitamin A the B complex and E, glucosamine sulphate, chondroitin, Devils Claw and MSM. Again the supplement that helps one person may not help another, trial and error is the best way to find a supplement to help your particular condition.
Many arthritis sufferers find remedial massage extremely useful. It is warming and comforting, reduces discomfort, improves range of movement and stimulates the lymphatic system, thereby improving the elimination of toxins from the tissues. Certain essential oils have anti-inflammatory properties and a massage using a combination of Chamaemelum nobile (Chamomile), Eucalyptus citriodora (Eucalyptus), or Lavandula angustifolia (Lavender) could be particularly beneficial. Others oils such as Cupressus sempervirens (Cypress), Foeniculum vulgare (Fennel), Juniperus communis (Juniper) and Citrus limonum (Lemon) encourage the body to detoxify and should be used well diluted in a carrier oil in baths or massages.
However the use of heat lamps, hot baths, warming massage, hot compresses, hot wheat sacks or any form of warming therapy must be followed by gently exercising the joint immediately afterwards, otherwise the heating can add to the joints congestion making the condition appear worse not better.
A few culinary herbs e.g. basil, fennel, rosemary, tarragon and thyme also have anti-inflammatory properties and it may be a good idea to include these in your diet.
Scenar treatment is a new and excellent therapy for arthritis and can have spectacularly good results, it uses tiny painless electrical impulses to promote healing and pain relief. This stimulates the body to improve the circulation to the joints and to help remove waste. Scenar works particularly well alongside the many and varied forms of massage to help arthritis sufferers.
If the arthritis is a long standing problem it may not be possible to undo all the damage to the joint surfaces but in all cases pain can be reduced, mobility, improved and further damage kept to the minimum.
Stephanie
Sorry again...not what site is for :D
Arthritis is caused by an accumulation of uric acid in the body, some people get rid of the toxins more efficiently than others and some peoples diets will give their body a heavier toxic load than others. Usually the first places that we notice the effects of arthritis are at sites of old injuries but as we age we may start to notice the problem in other areas as well due to “wear and tear” especially if we exercise a lot, or work very hard physically.
Unlike osteoarthritis rheumatoid arthritis may come and go spontaneously. There is no sure cure and the underlying causes are not fully understood but physical and emotional stresses may play some part in triggering an attack.
Rheumatoid arthritis is more common in women than men and is classified as an autoimmune disease. The first attack often follows a viral infection or an illness.
Osteoarthritis is characterized by degeneration of the smooth gliding surfaces of the joints. There are some natural ways to improve and ease the problem.
Some foodstuffs have a negative effect on arthritis and can exacerbate the symptoms these can be different for one person than for another but often include, citrus fruits and their juices, alcohol, coffee, strong tea, fizzy drinks, aubergines, tomatoes, potatoes, red meats especially pork and pig products.
Certain supplements can help, particularly cod liver oil. One of its chief ingredients the omega 3 fatty acids helps to dampen inflammation and in a study, daily cod liver oil supplementation for three months brought about significant reductions in stiffness and pain caused by rheumatoid arthritis. There is evidence that this oil may be useful to combat osteoarthritis as well, due to its vitamin D content. Research shows that people with the highest intake of this vitamin have the lowest risk of joint degeneration. Also worth trying are vitamin A the B complex and E, glucosamine sulphate, chondroitin, Devils Claw and MSM. Again the supplement that helps one person may not help another, trial and error is the best way to find a supplement to help your particular condition.
Many arthritis sufferers find remedial massage extremely useful. It is warming and comforting, reduces discomfort, improves range of movement and stimulates the lymphatic system, thereby improving the elimination of toxins from the tissues. Certain essential oils have anti-inflammatory properties and a massage using a combination of Chamaemelum nobile (Chamomile), Eucalyptus citriodora (Eucalyptus), or Lavandula angustifolia (Lavender) could be particularly beneficial. Others oils such as Cupressus sempervirens (Cypress), Foeniculum vulgare (Fennel), Juniperus communis (Juniper) and Citrus limonum (Lemon) encourage the body to detoxify and should be used well diluted in a carrier oil in baths or massages.
However the use of heat lamps, hot baths, warming massage, hot compresses, hot wheat sacks or any form of warming therapy must be followed by gently exercising the joint immediately afterwards, otherwise the heating can add to the joints congestion making the condition appear worse not better.
A few culinary herbs e.g. basil, fennel, rosemary, tarragon and thyme also have anti-inflammatory properties and it may be a good idea to include these in your diet.
Scenar treatment is a new and excellent therapy for arthritis and can have spectacularly good results, it uses tiny painless electrical impulses to promote healing and pain relief. This stimulates the body to improve the circulation to the joints and to help remove waste. Scenar works particularly well alongside the many and varied forms of massage to help arthritis sufferers.
If the arthritis is a long standing problem it may not be possible to undo all the damage to the joint surfaces but in all cases pain can be reduced, mobility, improved and further damage kept to the minimum.
Stephanie
Sorry again...not what site is for :D
Stephanie Powell
Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
https://www.facebook.com/Duffryn-Dexter ... 609196773/
Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
https://www.facebook.com/Duffryn-Dexter ... 609196773/
-
groubearfarm
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:52 pm
- Location: Tiverton Devon
I am sorry I did not mean to belittle the effects of arthritus, I do understand how debilitating and painful it is, however,I wanted to suggest there are perhaps some remedies that can be used to help some sufferers, to make life a little less painful.
Fiona
Fiona
Fiona Miles
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon
Groubear Dexters 31527
Groubear Farm
Cruwys Morchard
Devon
I think the short-legged Dexters do have a higher rate of foot problems than the long-legged Dexters. My two short-legged Dexters seem to stumble a lot more than the rest of the herd and my Sister-in-Laws short-legged Dexters seem to be having problems with clicky joints in their feet. These animals are all under 10 years of age, so I don't know what they're going to be like when they're older. We do have steep hills for them to graze on, which probably doesn't help, but I can forsee that the short-legged Dexters will probably have to be culled earlier than some of the long-legged Dexters, if loss of mobility causes them to lose condition. I'm afraid, for my part, I prefer to run cows with sound feet, because of our farm's rough terrain. If that means sticking to long-legged Dexters, then so be it.
Inger
NZ
NZ
I presume by shortlegs Kathleen you are referring to a carrier af the Chrondodysplasia gene, with the physical attributes of a "dwarf...I would imagine having a disease that shrinks your skeleton you would have to expect arithitis at some point. My shortlegs walk around like everyone elses here that has commented...I fully expect some to get arthritis. But I won't cull them, I will cross that when we get there.Shazz :;):
Rosnasharn Farm
Rosnasharn Farm
Hi,
I am going to try to link Saffy's comments re arthritis with humans, with info relevant to dexters too! As she stated, Omega 3 is known to be beneficial. There has been quite a bit of research done recently, that proves that the beef from grass fed cattle is much higher in Omega 3/ there is much more saturated fat in cattle fed on grains, concentrates. This was reported on in the Farmers Guardian a week or 2 ago, so it is not just me trying to promote the way my boys are finished.!! ( Although I must mention that Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall quotes recent taste trials in which grass fed beef was much more popular than beef from animals that had been fed concentrates)
Another fact that came up in conversation recently, was that if I make my own stock using the bones, then the goodness from the cartilage etc will be of benefit for arthritis sufferers. Better than taking supplements, so I shall try this.
Obviously none of this can help the dexters with arthritis, but our furry little friends can potentially help us.
Greetings from snowy Yorkshire
Penny
I am going to try to link Saffy's comments re arthritis with humans, with info relevant to dexters too! As she stated, Omega 3 is known to be beneficial. There has been quite a bit of research done recently, that proves that the beef from grass fed cattle is much higher in Omega 3/ there is much more saturated fat in cattle fed on grains, concentrates. This was reported on in the Farmers Guardian a week or 2 ago, so it is not just me trying to promote the way my boys are finished.!! ( Although I must mention that Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall quotes recent taste trials in which grass fed beef was much more popular than beef from animals that had been fed concentrates)
Another fact that came up in conversation recently, was that if I make my own stock using the bones, then the goodness from the cartilage etc will be of benefit for arthritis sufferers. Better than taking supplements, so I shall try this.
Obviously none of this can help the dexters with arthritis, but our furry little friends can potentially help us.
Greetings from snowy Yorkshire
Penny
Hi Penny,
Glad my comments were of interest, if there is anything more you would like from me about arthritis or any other musculo-skeletal or auto immune problems including problems with the skin and hay fever in people and/or natural cures/treatments, please email me. It will be no trouble as I have my old magazine articles on computer and can just send relevant bits as an attachment for you, or one of my hand outs.
tmytny@tesco.net
Cheers Stephanie
Glad my comments were of interest, if there is anything more you would like from me about arthritis or any other musculo-skeletal or auto immune problems including problems with the skin and hay fever in people and/or natural cures/treatments, please email me. It will be no trouble as I have my old magazine articles on computer and can just send relevant bits as an attachment for you, or one of my hand outs.
tmytny@tesco.net
Cheers Stephanie
Stephanie Powell
Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
https://www.facebook.com/Duffryn-Dexter ... 609196773/
Duffryn Dexters 32824
Abergavenny
https://www.facebook.com/Duffryn-Dexter ... 609196773/
Hi All,
Geeze this thread took off while I wasnt watching :;):
Hi Stephanie, you are quite right when you say that the feet and legs,(foundations) of an animal effects the rest of the structure above... my piont was that not only do shortlegs have these problems but also mediums and longlegs.
So these problems - if they cause Arthritis (and not other factors) - will cause all types of Dexters to _possibly_ have this problem and not just shortlegs as the article I am refering to insinuated.
Hi Inger, Yes it does _seem_ that short-legged Dexters do have a higher rate of foot problems than the other types. But the fact that you can breed shorts without these problems sort of puts paid to the theory that it is somehow linked to the Dexter Dwarf gene. Oh and I totally agree with you in that I prefer animals with sound feet and legs. The real trick is trying to breed the problem out ...and there are not too many Dexter bulls _of any type_ with perfect feet/legs.
It seems that some people choose to insinuating that shortlegs have all these problems because they are shortlegs (carriers of the Dexter Dwarf gene) wereas a lot of skeletal/structural problems are actually there because breeders have not culled for it over the years (the klicking feet in the UK cattle is an example ...Dexters in other countries do not neccesarily have it... just as not all UK shortlegs have it!)
Hi Penny, thanks for your info on Omega 3 research - it is facinating! And what i meant by 'enviromental' factors as appossed to 'genetic' ones. So the diet of your cattle may have more effect on the problem than the 'type' afterall!
All the best
Kathleen.
Geeze this thread took off while I wasnt watching :;):
Hi Stephanie, you are quite right when you say that the feet and legs,(foundations) of an animal effects the rest of the structure above... my piont was that not only do shortlegs have these problems but also mediums and longlegs.
So these problems - if they cause Arthritis (and not other factors) - will cause all types of Dexters to _possibly_ have this problem and not just shortlegs as the article I am refering to insinuated.
Hi Inger, Yes it does _seem_ that short-legged Dexters do have a higher rate of foot problems than the other types. But the fact that you can breed shorts without these problems sort of puts paid to the theory that it is somehow linked to the Dexter Dwarf gene. Oh and I totally agree with you in that I prefer animals with sound feet and legs. The real trick is trying to breed the problem out ...and there are not too many Dexter bulls _of any type_ with perfect feet/legs.
It seems that some people choose to insinuating that shortlegs have all these problems because they are shortlegs (carriers of the Dexter Dwarf gene) wereas a lot of skeletal/structural problems are actually there because breeders have not culled for it over the years (the klicking feet in the UK cattle is an example ...Dexters in other countries do not neccesarily have it... just as not all UK shortlegs have it!)
Hi Penny, thanks for your info on Omega 3 research - it is facinating! And what i meant by 'enviromental' factors as appossed to 'genetic' ones. So the diet of your cattle may have more effect on the problem than the 'type' afterall!
All the best
Kathleen.