One small cow, one big problem

[Sylvia]

By golly Dexter people do like to make things difficult for themselves don't they. Small (short) dexters ..... no, no, no, genetically flawed. What are wanted are small non-shorts yes, yes, yes. not genetically flawed. Should the breed get bigger no, no, no.

So what we should be breeding with are the (generally) larger non shorts but selecting (presumably) for the smaller types of these. Sounds to me a fairly good description of a Kerry.

So those of us who came into Dexters believing that the bulldog problem was under control and therefore no longer a problem have been severely misled. The goal posts have now changed and control is not enough, elimination is now required. And with that will go all the 'typical' short Dexters which have been so highly prized.

What would be my advise to anyone wishing to get into Dexters? I'm almost inclined to say buy Welsh Blacks, Belted Galloways, Herefords anything but our poor little derided Dexters. It breaks my heart that such lovely little cattle are continually picked at as being flawed.

[Broomcroft]

I'm not sure I understand the size discussion. We have a breed standard, my view is breed what you want but it is only a Dexter if it meets breed standard. That's what the standard is for presumably? If individuals want to breed on the upper or lower end, it's up to them. If they're doing beef then they will probably want reasonable sized animals and if they're showing they'll probably want a size or two down...but maybe not. But they're all to standard.

Or is there an under current to change the standard to a smaller size looming?

[Kirk- Cascade Herd US]

Sometimes, that's the problem with science. When you figure out what makes something tick, you can analyze it thoroughly and find all of its flaws. Science often ruins the party. Here's a list of other things that science ruined:

Apple Pie
Ice Cream
Butter
Cake
A ride in the back of dad's pickup truck
A nice scotch
A good cigarette

The good news is that the alternatives aren't all that bad. Apple pie is great, but a nice piece of fresh fruit is pretty good too. I remember when people smoked in office buildings and were told they could no longer do so. They were outraged. Quitting cigarettes was painful during the quitting process, but newer generations that never smoked, think nothing of it.

If over a long period of time, the chondrodysplasia gene was eliminated (not that it needs to be), someday we would wake up and think, that wasn't so bad. Everything we liked about Dexters would still be there except that one gene. It's going through the process that's painful.

Science doesn't force us to do anything. It just tells the truth and we follow its lead. Sometimes the truth can be painful.

hmmm, does this help, or hurt?

[Woodmagic]

The Dexter and Kerry are two very different breeds, short or long - a Dexter is a Dexter, the head and general conformation and skeleton is very different to a Kerry. The short leg is precisely the same animal as its counterpart, but with a skeleton that has not been given genes to allow it to grow to its full potential, that is the only difference. Mother will pass on her milk genes and beef genes whether she is mated to a short or long, two sisters that were from the same bull would carry identical genes even if one collected the bulldog gene and the other not. The beefing qualities would be the same, but stretched over the bigger frame the long leg carcase might look less beefy. The long leg skeleton would be less likely to suffer from arthritis at an early age; I used to have to discard one or two every year at around nine years of age in the short leg. I am dead against eliminating any types except through a breeders willing decision. You cant get away from the fact that the short leg only persists as long as it carries a gene which kills the poor little thing if it collects two, but if that is what you want to breed, I defend your right to breed it, but please, don’t call my animals Kerries. I can remember a time when the decree was you must use short leg bulls only, I am grateful for a more tolerant Society today.

[Sylvia]

I am sorry if I offended you with the reference to Kerries. But try as I may I cannot understand why this subject is always littered with comments such as " I am dead against eliminating any types except through a breeders willing decision. You cant get away from the fact that the short leg only persists as long as it carries a gene which kills the poor little thing if it collects two, but if that is what you want to breed, I defend your right to breed it". Why defend something which you clearly find abhorrent?

The DCS still advertises short (carrier) bulls. It could regularise this situation by ceasing to do this. By allowing short females to live out their lives, but refusing to register any short calf born unless it tested clear. And by discouraging short Dexters from the show ring by favouring non-short. Within 20 years the bulldog problem should be just a nasty memory. I might even live long enough to see this.

Will this be done? Not by defending everyone's right to breed what they want, it won't.

Kirk, yes it does hurt. It is a bit like the VHS v Betamax situation but at least I chose right back then, must be losing my touch (or something).

[Kirk- Cascade Herd US]

It is a bit like the VHS v Betamax situation

Imagine if Betamax tapes and equipment could have provided you with a VHS copy of themselves, not just once, but several times. It would have been pretty easy to switch to VHS.

[Woodmagic]

I have admitted before in these columns to being illogical, life’s choices are seldom, that easy. If I could wave a magic wand and persuade all breeders of the wisdom of breeding out the achondroplastic condition I would be in heaven. However, in this country the majority are still in favour of the bulldog type. I have very good friends who are convinced we should be breeding only short. Apart from the fact that most of the Council, voted into their positions by the general membership, are short leg breeders, and unlikely to favour such sweeping propositions as you suggest, one has only to look across the ‘pond’ to see the dangers. The Dexter hasn’t the breeder numbers to allow for two Societies. As I have said before, it is still the same animal, and I prefer to continue to work within, I can see progress and I think patience will get there in the end.

[Sylvia]

I was thinking more about the fact that Betamax buyers had to bite the bullet and swop allegiance, while the doubtless admirable Betamax diminished into a very minority curiosity. But I take your point, Kirk. And even better if the Betamax which didn't provide a VHS copy but stuck loyally to producing Betamax could at least provide a freezer full of food to keep you going while the more important things in life are sorted out, I'm sure you will tell me. ???

[Saffy]

From what I can make out very few people show the non short because it isn't favoured in the show ring.

I know little about dexters but have been involved heavily in showing and running shows in the past.

Why not offer a small prize such as a rossette for the best non short forward in a few shows? I see this kind of thing in all sorts of classes, either to encourage locals to have a go or to reward members of a club or society that have had the courage to have a go, or for the oldest in a veteran horse class etc.

This would not only encourage non short breeders to have go occasionally but it would also eventually help distinguish the best types of non short around. A rossettes cost from 50p and I don't think the most ornate type would be necassary about £1 buys something OK, so it wouldn't be the most expensive venture in the world. Because it is a small "token" prize it doesn't split the class by overshadowing the overall winner and placings it just encourages those that otherwise would probably stay at home!

Any comments?

Stephanie

[Martin]

I only breed non short to non short and yes my cattle are near the limit on height, but I have uniformity in my calves and as such it is easier to judge when they are fit to kill as you get used used to seeing what is on the hoof compared to what will be on the hook. My cows are still Dexters and recognised by many who know little about cattle as Dexters. I will no longer be breeding my own replacements as even heifers are worth more dead than alive so the height of my herd should not increase in the future. Showing is not for me me as it does not float my boat. What all the short breeders that look down their noses at people with non shorts should remember is that without non short bulls the breed may have died out a few years ago. People like Duncan and Beryl have earned my respect because they are doing on their own what the society should have been encouraging a long time ago.

Martin.

[Woodmagic]

I did offer a cash prize at one point; there was little response except complaints from the judges!

[Anna]

Is the situation the same in Australia, US, Canada, New Zeeland.. that the shorts are favoured in the show ring?

[Broomcroft]

People like Duncan and Beryl have earned my respect because they are doing on their own what the society should have been encouraging a long time ago.

Ditto, and..

Don't the bulldog calves suffer? All those bones and stuff in the wrong place. They must be in pain. Shouldn't this be the main issue rather than what we prefer?

[wagra dexters]

Anna, I don't remember the exact details, but there was a time when Dexters could not be shown at the Sydney Royal Easter. It was either because they had a lethal gene, or that they were not considered a breed because they could not be relied upon to breed true. Then they could be shown only if they did not have short-leg parents. It is after 11 pm here, so I can't ring anyone to confirm the details.

Many breeders have chondro carriers as a part of their herds, and some will have both types in their show teams. I know of at least one stud that breeds short to short, and hang the consequences. On the other hand, about 17 years ago, I heard a breeder say, "My husband and I are ethically opposed to the intentional breeding of genetic deformities."

Of the few shows we have visited, and the even fewer in which we have competed, we have yet to come across any judges who are also Dexter breeders. This fact could possibly favour the non-carrier in some cases, but some will over-compensate by being sure to place both types, sometimes at the expense of consistent judging.

If there is discrimination against the non-carrier, we haven't seen it. We got champion junior bull at Melbourne Royal a couple of years ago with a non-carrier.

[Mark Bowles]

We do show a bit, when warts and ringworm leave us alone. Non shorts have done well in the showring in the last couple of years, i myself have shown and done well with a non short heifer and this year good sized classes have been won by nonshorts, as well as non shorts taking championships.
Our group show at Sutton Bonington has raised eybrows in the show world as we hold a specific class for non shorts over the last 4 years or so, and that always gets entries.
I would expect that the majority of short legged fans like myself who have mostly shorts, never breed short to short, i really think those people are a small minority.
Mark