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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:35 am
by Kativa
Can anyone help / give advice.
For the first time in our time of keeping Dexters and calving cows in 10 years ,today we have had a cow with a dead calf.The calf appears to be normal , certainly not Bulldog and no outward signs as to why it has died.
The cow is obvioulsy distressed and has an udder fit to burst.
What should I do with her ??
Should I try and find a foster , or put her in a sparse paddock to dry up or milk her ?? What , never had this before. 
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:44 am
by Penny
Poor you. It is a horrid time, seeing your cow distressed and also wondering why it happened.Do not blame yourself, statistically these things will happen and you will not necessarily be able to prevent it even if you are present at the birth.
Having done both options, of foster calves and drying cows off, there are pros and cons with either:
If you try to foster a calf, I personally recommend that you get something vaguely like a dexter if possible eg Aberdeen Angus or cross ideally. An obvious "alien" calf such as a Black and White does not easily get accepted. I tried a jersey calf on a old girl, fed it a bit with a bottle enough to keep it healthy but hungry, and had them in a pen. At first the cow was reluctant to let it suckle, but within 24 hours she was putting her hindlegs backwards and virtually thrusting her udders under its nose because she was so desperate for it to suckle! NOt all cows are this good, though, and for the safety of the calf, if they are penned together you must make sure that it has a creep area where it can be safe if she gets rough with it. I have heard many stories of people trying to foster calves but not succeeding, thus ending up with a cow drying off and an extra mouth to bottle feed. If you do not have much free time, then drying off would be an easier option. You know your cow and her temperament to know whather this may work or not.
Certainly, when my cow went back in the field with her "new" calf, you could see her embarrassment! "Yes, I know it looks strange, doesn't it!" All the dexters gathered round to see this strange little thing.
RE drying off. Generally an easy option at this time of year, and depending how much grass you have ( most of us are finding that it is drying up quickly) you may not even have to seperate her off into a sparse paddock. I have found that they actually seem to cope better if with their friends, and other calves that they can babysit for.
Just be VERY careful for mastitis. Check her udders regualrly and treat her with a long-lasting fly repellent such as Spot On
Best of luck
Penny
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:25 pm
by Joey Baker Cresswell
Over the last ten years we have had two dead calves (reason unknown) and both times have put on Belgian Blue X calves from a local dairy. Obviously from a size point of view they are not ideal but they tend to be fairly placid and keen to suckle. Both times they have been accepted but it is time consuming and I did keep them apart except when calf is suckling for the calves safety until sure they had been accepted. We did also on both occasions skin the dead calf and put as much skin as possible onto the foster calf's tail end so the scent is there (skinning the calf is of course not pleasant but I think helps greatly). Once accepted and returned to the herd the calves both soon outgrew their mothers who were both short legged but suckled until natural weaning. The cows had amble milk even for a very large baby with the added bonus of keeping the cow slim for her return to the bull. Therefore my advice is to only foster on if the cow is fairly placid and you have plenty of time as sometimes it requires alot of patience. Good Luck!
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:03 pm
by Penny
Hi Kativa,
how is your cow? Did you decide to foster or not? Either way, I hope it is going smoothly.
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:26 am
by Kativa
Thankyou for your advice and words of wisdom.
We did decide in the end not to foster.I made many phone calls and couldn't find a calf.I also took on board the advise that I may have a calf to bottle feed.
"Mum" is doing OK , she has rejoined our little herd which consists of her own mum and a another cow and her 3 yr old daughter who is the only one to have a calf at foot at the moment.The two older cows are due in the next few weeks.
She did spend a awful lot of time at the site where she gave birth , looking for him and yelling , poor girl. She has stopped calling for him and her udder is starting to reduce.
My next thought is whether or not she should go back to the bull this year and of course how long in fairness to her to wait.I not impatient , I 'm not planning to have him around until after the other two have calved anyway.
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:27 pm
by dai
you have to get her in calf as sson as possible- otherwise she's just eating, not doing any work, and putting on fat. There's no harm in putting her straight in with the bull.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:47 am
by Inger
She'll probably cycle sooner without having a calf to feed. It'll probably make her feel a bit better as well if given the chance to get in-calf again.
I would be wanting to find out why the calf died though. If it is a desease like Leptosporosis, you need to know. Some plants can cause abortions as well, so its good to find out if the death was something which coauld be prevented on another occasion.
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:36 pm
by Kathy Millar
I thought you had to wait for at least one cycle (my AI man called it a "cleansing" heat) before you rebreed?
Kathy
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:38 am
by Louisa Gidney
Why? I like my cows to be served as soon as they come bulling to keep a tight calving pattern.
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:53 pm
by Kathy Millar
Could my AI man be thinking of dairy farm practises? They form the bulk of his clients and he grew up on a dairy farm. My dairy farm neighbour says he likes to wait about 45 to 50 days after calving before rebreeding so I always assumed this was the gospel.
Kathy ???
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:39 pm
by groubearfarm
My cows run with the bull rather than AI, and one of my cows had a dead calf earlier in the year and I put her in with the bull after she had properly cleansed and she naturally conceived within month of loosing her calf. \i wanted to get her working as soon as possibly before she had put on unnecessary weight. Fiona
Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:44 pm
by bailefour
Hi Kathy and all...I believe the 45-50 days that your AI guy likes to wait is a minimum waiting that they like to use when AIing cattle ...dairy or otherwise. AI is not as effective as breeding cattle by natural methods so I think they like to increase the percentage of succesful breedings anyway possible.. I took an AI course this spring and this is what they taught us, 45 days is sort of a minimum because it takes about that long for the cows uterus to return to a normal healthy state.
Rick Myers
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:10 pm
by Kathy Millar
Thanks, Rick, that makes sense. It seems that the natural way is the best way but needs must.
Kathy