Page 1 of 2
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:25 pm
by Sylvia
Does anyone know what ratio as a percentage Dexters are to the large breeds of cattle. i.e. how many Dexters will it take to produce the same amount of manure as large breeds? How many can you keep to the acre (sorry Hectare). How many large cattle can you keep in the same area. Those of you who live in Wales will have guessed why I need this if you are also struggling with the latest scheme here. I would guess about two-thirds or is it bit more or less?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:46 pm
by Penny
Sylvia,
when I went to a NVZ meeting here, the Defra official said that "cattle were cattle" and therefore differences in size would not be taken into account for either manure produced or stocking density etc.
I do not know whether this will apply to Wales, or even the rest of England, as Defra opinions seem to change with each employee they have!
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:02 pm
by Sylvia
Thanks Penny, my attempt at filling in the booklet has fallen at the first hurdle. How much slurry is produced? None here, we bed down with enough straw when they are in that slurry is non-existent. I suppose if I put that the WAG will assume that we have animals which don't p.. and be round to check. And how the hell do you work out the moisture content of manure? Get some and squeeze it until you have solids and liquids in two separate containers? Anyone got one of those old mangles?:p
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:52 pm
by Kathy Millar
Sylvia, there should be a table with the "standard" manure/slurry/whatever else comes out the backend. DEFRA probably doesn't know one end of a cow from the other so they would have to refer to something in order to process such questions. I have a table that we use here in Canada for making such calculations for our nutrient loads etc.
Kathy
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:21 pm
by Sylvia
Hello Kathy - I do have a table based on weights of cattle But each category offers only one weight ie all suckler cows weigh and produce exactly the same, I'm thinking of altering the form, the sheep don't fit in either, as Shetlands are about half the size of commercial sheep. I wish we got the same amount of money for the finished animals - now that would be a step in the right direction! 
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:45 pm
by Kathy Millar
Sylvia, I just hate this one-size-fits-all 
Our government is forcing all the abattoirs in my province to become inspected and so far all the rules are designed for huge businesses and are really difficult and expensive for the little guy (ie. a separate office AND toilet for the inspector who may only be inspecting a dozen animals!! :p )
I'll bet DEFRA won't acknowledge any size difference, it would be too complicated....and fair 
Kathy
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:13 am
by Sylvia
Kathy, the figures I am having to work out go into a Manure Management Book which, when worked through, tells me if I have enough fields to spread the muck produced. This book must be available for inspection. Having worked through it I find we have far less (even working on the large animal figures) than the maximum allowed. And the section on slurry was easy - no slurry. I have also had to colour in a map with all the non-spreading areas on it, all different colours, just to remind us that you can't spread on bits too steep to get a tractor on, in dense woodland, in the yard - you get the picture. Ain't life grand :p
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:15 am
by John C
What the heck is a manure management book ! are you taking the P*** !
Seriouslly ,this is not something I,ve not heard of ! Its obviously another piece of red tape that has escaped my attention .
I keep three dexters that live out all year round, but if I kept them in can someone enlighten me as to what I would be expected to do ?
I know that ignorance is no excuse but I really don,t recall having had anything through the letterbox about this .
My daughter scoops the poop in the horses paddock and we currently have a humungus manure heap in one corner of the field that I,ve been saving for a rainy day for the last 4 or 5 years .
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:31 pm
by John C
I meant I havent heard of it
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:05 pm
by Sylvia
John C, don't worry I suspect you don't live in Wales and are not trying to comply to their latest environmental scheme. There is a Soil Nutrient Book too just for good measure! It seems to have escaped their notice that the British countryside has been managed perfectly well by farmers for years which is why it looks like it does, and all without European desk bound interference.
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:44 pm
by marion
Sylvia, I still like your "mangle" idea :laugh:
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:14 pm
by John C
SYLVIA . I do live in Wales and do usually have a quick look at the bilingual glossy that comes through the letterbox every now and then but I hadn,t picked up on this one !
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:23 pm
by John C
Just had a thought ! When most people were registering their land for the grant or supplement that replaced subsidies I didnt bother . I didn,t want people telling me how to manage my land . I didn,t think that my 5 acre holding made it financially viable to incur all the hassle . Is this why I,m now blissfully unaware of Pooh books and the like ? Is my decision not to register being vindicated ? or are they going to get me in the end ?
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:00 pm
by dai
Sylvia, you're best bet for getting it right for your papers is to contact the Assembly's regional farm liason team - they are actually very helpful, and tend to be retired farmers, and farmer's wifes. The number will be in any copy of Gwlad...
Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:54 pm
by ann
Hi re how much manure does a dexter verus a commercial produce, maybe it would be a good idea to tie one of each up outside the welsh assembly and get the door man to measure it.
I sure know which one I would rather clean up after :p :p :p