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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:23 pm
by John C
It was a sad day today when I was forced to sell the last of my ducks . A couple of weeks or so ago I had 40 smashing laying ducks which had free range over the whole of our holding.Each night they were locked up in a pig sty safe from the fox but with a pending decree to house all poultry I just didnt have the facillities to house them 24/7. What are they going to throw at us next? My pig stys were already redundant because the closure of local abbatoirs means that the closest one able to do pigs is two hours away .Because of the nature of my holding , any requirement to house the dexters would also be difficult .
PS We have friends with peacocks ,what are they going to do ? ???
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:42 pm
by Jo Kemp
Until Last month we had about 30 Muscovy ducks - free range and not shut up at night. I attended a Scottish Agricultural College meeting re avian flu and learnt that 'they' believe that waterfowl will catch and spread the disease. I'm afraid we shut all into a loose box and got someone to kill them. This to save if poss. our virtually feral bantams and our 9 breeding geese. I hated making the decision especially as I hate killing complete gene pools (we have sold some so they do 'live' elsewhere) but after FMD I cannot take risks.
Well done John for being able to sell them
Jo
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:00 pm
by John C
Jo . The geese pose the same risk as the ducks and are obviously just as unsuited to being kept in . Like you I got rid of the ducks to protect my chickens . I keep some irreplacable strains which I can house . So its fingers crossed and keep working to keep the sparrows out as they do bring in lots of nasties into domestic poultry flocks
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:57 pm
by MarkCollins
We are in the same position here in Sweden. With spring around the corner I cant imagine locking up my muscovy ducks or italian geese. Their pond has been frozen for months now and the thought of locking in them is too much. I will have to euthanise them I suppose.
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:00 pm
by Issy
I can really sympathise with you all, what an awful situation to be in. I have spent all morning dragging my poultry houses and runs into a small area so that I can cover the whole lot with netting and a tarpaulin if it becomes necessary. My chickens won't like it as they usually free range but hopefully it won't be for long. I only have two ducks that are going in the horse box and if time drag's on I will have to cull them.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:53 am
by Inger
We've kept our four geese in a covered yard for extended periods of time by giving them a child's paddling pool to swim in. So don't give them up MarkCollins. Perhaps you can sell a few breeding trios to others, so that, if the worst happens, some of them will go on.
Here in NZ we are more isolated, so are in less danger. But we are still aware of the possibility of having to lock up our poultry. I know we've got too many to lock all of them up. We'd have to choose the rarest breeds and protect them first I'm afraid.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:34 am
by Martin
I've heard of sensible precautions, but don't you think you are jumping the gun a bit. Bird flu may become a problem but as yet we do not know how bad it will get, we don't know how virulent the bug is or how easy it can be transmitted between birds.
I've heard no stories of mass destruction of the wild bird population within europe, so why must we destroy the few birds that most of us keep. I will listen to the news and take the advice of the vets that are dealing with any possible outbreak, until then I will take what precautions that I can within reason. If it becomes neccessary I will cull my small flock, until then they will enjoy what freedom that I can afford them.
If it becomes neccessary DEFRA will send in the killing machines soon enough. Whatever you do please do not panic.
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:07 pm
by John C
Martin. Its not jumping the gun at all.The day the first dead duck turns up there will undoubtbly be a decree issued for all poultry throughout the country to be brought indoors . I can cope with the chickens but not the ducks .:laugh:
Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:10 pm
by John C
sorry about the "Laugh"I pressed the wrong button
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:45 pm
by Penny
I don't think it is jumping the gun either. I am about to try and rehome or otherwise have destroyed our hens and ducks.
Having built up a good beef business with a lot of private sales off farm, I cannot have the business collapse because of quarentines and restrictions imposed by DEfra. There was a false alarm just 8 miles away from here last week, and that made me realise just like F&M it could be upon before we can take any action.
Biosecurity may not make a big difference in protecting yourself, as they have just found out in France. It is DEfra that I am concerned about as much as Bird Flu. Those that did not experience F&M directly will not know what it is like to have so many restrictions put on your movements and work that has to be carried out on the farm before being considered" clean" again, and to be treated as lepers by people worried they may catch something from you.
Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:16 pm
by Inger
So would they stop you sending beef off-farm if you have birds on the farm? Even though there is no risk of cattle being affected by Bird-Flu. ???
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:59 pm
by Jo Kemp
DEFRA isn't logical so no, I believe we are being proactive to reduce risk.
Geese are affected like ducks John, as you say but domestic geese are not so 'guddly' as ducks and are cleaner being grass feeders so I take the risk with them. At the moment, wild geese and ducks are not visiting us, partly due to the local shoot feeding at duck ponds (long may that last!)
I telephoned both the local Animal Health Dept to register over 50 birds...we are not quite there but if anything hatches chicks we shall be and I could well forget when lambing. The reaction was v. laid back and "You don't need to tell us if you have less than 50!" I was given the UK 0800 telephone number to report same and blow me same response and a very reluctant chap eventually said he would put my details down on the list..... it appears that 40 million birds are still unaccounted for, due of course to farmers not registering! :p
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:34 pm
by Penny
Sorry, I mistyped! It should read "from the farm" and yes, there is a very high chance that we would be in quarentine if an infection is found within a certain radius of the farm, possibly 10 mile radius?
Customers would then not be allowed due to biosecurity restrictions. If it was further away then it would probably be permitted provided disinfectant mats and sprays were used, but I am sure customers would be very cautious about coming near poultry as ignorance and propaganda will take their toll.
Sorry to be so negative, but I know that Defra say that they cannot change things once the original paperwork has been issued, even if then proved to be incorrect. Hence after F&M we had to go through each of the cleansing and disinfecting assessmentsTWICE, one by Leeds division and one by Newcastle division of Animal Health and could only restock after both of them signed us off, all because of a change in holding number done by Maff a week prior to the outbreak.I could tell you loads more, but know I must bore the website with my paranoia!
Just be warned, logic does not come into it!!
Glad to say that most of my hens and ducks are happily rehomed already.
Can anyone who has dealt with Defra be surprised at Jo'e experience?
Good luck.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:10 am
by Sue E
Like Jo, I too was told by Defra there was no need to bother registering my few geese if I did not want to as I had less than 50. Surely no matter how many you have they are just as liable to be infected and I thought it would make sense for a register to include all poultry. This seems to be Defra at its best yet again! The lady I spoke to had a very laid back approach possibly because it was Friday and almost the weekend.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:12 pm
by John C
About six weeks or so ago I saw a full page advert in one of the smallholding type magazines which informed the reader that any "commercial flocks" over 50 had to be registered by a certain date . At that time prior to me getting rid of my ducks I had over a hundred birds,so I rang Defra to see whether or not I had to register. They had set up a sort of hotline to deal with the situation . The first guy that I spoke to insisted that as I had over 50 birds then I would have to register . I pointed out to him that the advert was directed at commercial flocks and that as I kept them for pleasure and that I didnt sell meat or eggs I was exempt .He was adamant that because I,d exceded the magic 50 number I had to register . Before I had time to argue the toss with him a customer came in and I had to ring off .Ten minutes later I rang the same number and got hold of a different bloke who told me that what I was saying was indeed correct situation and that what his colleague had told me was basically a load of rubbish . So at the moment until they move the goal posts if your poultry keeping is not a commercial enterprise you don,t have to register no matter how many birds you keep.If two people working in the same office can,t agree on what is the correct policy what chance have us mere mortals got ?