Sods Law - Building up a herd

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:52 pm

Is it just me, or do others suffer the same. I have had Dexters for only eighteen months and am trying to build up numbers, but things never go to plan. I had two two year old heifers that where imposible to get in calf and made me question the verility of my bull. Both eventually went into the OTMS. One of the in calf cows that I purchased was found not to be in calf, but luckily my bull did the finding out and was eventually put in calf. I prefer to calve in March/April and this particular cow did not calve until June, she was running with the rest of the herd including the bull. My thoughts where that she should get in calf sooner and bring herself back into sink with the rest of the herd over a couple of years. Over the weekend she came back bulling again, so she will have to go to OTMS also. As numbers are small the loss of her will be hard, she is only a young cow and her calf this year was fantastic. As I have a settled herd where everyone knows their place I am a bit loath to bring in cows now so will have to look for some young heifers.
Not all bad news though, I have been offered another 20 acres so my herd now has lots more room to grow, for which I can thank the single farm payment and low grain prices. All I have to do now is finish off my new building and fill it with cows. Have you noticed though, that when you are looking for cows you cannot find what you want, but when you don't need them they are plentifull? Strange!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:09 pm

Errr...... Martin, they're livestock, not machines couldn't you give your cow that had a fantastic calf this year a bit more time? Why is it crucial that they calve in March/April? Culling because they won't get in calf at all is one thing, culling because they won't calve in the month you have chosen seems a touch harsh.
It was bad luck that 2 of your purchases failed to get in calf - out of my first purchases I had one like that and she finally went on the OTMS scheme, one had to go back after she calved as she was so 'calf proud' we didn't feel safe with her (a beautiful cow), each year we used a loaned in bull we had one or 2 who didn't take, one year we lost 3 calves to bad presentations.... and I'm sure everyone with livestock can relate similar stories. That's the glass half empty side, but there have been plenty of successes and we are now moving steadily towards the herd I have planned for.
As for buying cows in, we did it and it wasn't any more traumatic than the situation when cows are put back together again after being in separate groups for some reason. They always bundle around a bit to start with. Four older cows we bought in were a bit of a pain last winter and wanted a pen to themselves but separating them into different groups has worked wonders and they are much better this winter.
I haven't counted numbers but there are usually long lists of Dexters in the For Sale section and an ad in the Wanted section worked brilliantly when I was looking for a polled bull. If you want particular stock, try it!

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:28 am

Hi Sylvia,
good reasons for wanting to block calve, management is a lot easier, de-horning, weaning, and winter housing for starters. Also I do not live on the farm and cannot just look out of the window to see if everything is OK, my grazing is also split and I have to transport cows to different 'summer pastures'. so having a cow that is out of sinc with the rest will cause me problems. Yes I know they are not machines, if they where I would not keep them, but she has been running with the bull since June, so how long is long enough? Sorry if I seem harsh, but sometimes its the way to be.
As far as cattle for sale is concerned, yes I do look on a regular basis, and I agree that there are a fair number entered for sale, location is the problem for me. With my present commitments there is no way I can take the time off to go looking for suitable stock. I'll just have to take my time and grow at a slower pace than I really wanted. I know I will suffer pitfalls on the way, and maybe a few disasters, but I also know that I will get there in the end. If we didn't have bad times we wouldn't appreciate the good so much would we?

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:08 pm

What is the OTMS? If it means killing these cows, couldn't the really nice one have just been sold? Some of us can handle out of synch animals. Mine live 100 feet from me most of the time except when they are out on pasture and then it might be 800 feet!

I do know how you feel, though, about cows that are hard to get into calf. Polly is terrible about showing heats and as I have to use AI, it gets expensive. We all have our limits and unless I get a bull, Polly may be sold (to someone who has a bull, no point in causing problems for folks in my same situation). And as for using injections, that didn't work last time, she wouldn't show standing heat.

Kathy

Ken Hobbs · Post by **Ken Hobbs** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:50 pm

OTMS (Over Thirty Months) Untill recently cattle over thirty months was not allowed into the food chain.therefore were culled and rendered down for disposal. payment was about48p per Kilo. this regulation has been now lifted and cattle born after 1996 can now be brought into the food chain but has to have a brain stem checked.Cattle born pre 1996 must still continue to go to OTM. I think this will stop early next year.when they are bringinging in an OCDS (Older cattle disposal scheme!!!)

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:06 am

Hold it Martin!
Ask yourself the question WHY are so many cows/heifers not holding with the bull?
There may be a deficiency in your fodder/grass or silage/hay. I did have one of my 2 foundation cows which failed to be in calf but FMD came in so she was yeld that year. AI was not easy but she held the following year and has given me 3 more beautiful offspring... she is 14yrs old now. I also have had a heifer which failed to calve and she is running with the bull... as others have said, we all have hiccups but you do seem to be having rather too many. Dexters being a native breed usually don't have above average probs. Perhaps a blood test on a couple of the cows would show something. In derbyshire for example there is a shortage of iodine in the soil and a friend of mine thought her stallion was infertile but it turned out the mares had too low an iodine level.
Give them a chance!
Jo

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:47 am

In regard to the two heifers that would not get in calf, It was a mistake on my part to buy them, they where bought from someone who said he purchased them to breed from and had owned them for more than a year. He made excuses as to why they where not in calf and I believed him. Alarm bells should have rung as some of what was said did not ring true. My vet and I discussed what to do and we decided after he examined them and found that one would never get in calf and the other had at some time been in calf but had not held on to it, that OTMS was the best option. These two heifers had been running with a bull for ten months before this decision was made. As far as the not in calf cow we have now is concerned, who would want to buy her for one, or how long do you hold on to her before making the decision to let her go? I don't think I'm being unfair or harsh, maybe you are too soft! I don't mean that comment in a bad way, its just that I tend to cut my losses early and try to go forward quicker than I would if I didn't, if you see what I mean. I accept that we all have different circumstances and if she was in someone elses herd maybe given more time, but for reasons already given, she cannot stay in mine. My vet and I are satisfied that there is nothing wrong with the bull or the cow therefor no reason why she should not be in calf.

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:41 am

Sylvia,

Your idea of looking on the For Sale Board is excellent.

However I must say that having emailed several people on the For Sale Board about their cattle myself, so far I have had replies saying they are already sold and others who haven't replied, possibly theirs are also sold. So far no replies about any I am interested in that are available.

Perhaps if people were as keen to remove their advert once they had made a sale as they obviously are to get it on there when they wish to sell there wouldn't seem to be very many dexters for sale at all!

???

Stephanie

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:51 pm

Saffy

Sod's law at work again I suppose when the only enquiry I have had (and replied to) is for the one of 2 categories I do not have for sale. I do not have in-calf short heifers for sale, neither do I have any mature bulls for sale. As for unregistered and registered in calf cows (non-short), registered in calf heifers (non short), and one or two unregistered and registered non-short and short heifers which haven't been to the bull yet and steers - I could offer any of those. Is anyone interested? Doesn't look like it! How long should I leave the advert there for?

Sylvia ???

Post by **Mark Bowles** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:42 pm

As far as people submitting cattle for sale on the site,they email me if they arent on in a day, some of those same people then sell those cattle pretty quick but fail to let me know. Thats folk i suppose... and it cost them nothing. I have known in a good number of cases that the cattle are sold because i know who has bought them, then you ask the seller if you see them if they are sold, and all they say is yes as if i shouldent have asked..... and not even a thank you.
Short legged females are still in short supply, but overall who would buy cattle at this time of the year to feed them all through the winter,,,,,but still some people do.Thank goodness.
Mark

Farrant · Post by **Farrant** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:09 pm

We bought a cow with calf at foot 2.5 years ago, the cow was a big beefy type (perfect!) and the calf was fantastic - fast growing and great backside! However we had a big problem... the cow refused to get into calf for nearly 2 years! - We ran her with a bull for 9 weeks the first year, sent her away for the winter to be housed with a second bull, back with another bull for 3 months following summer....no calf! Vet PD visits, treated for cystic ovaries she had it all! The only change, was that she got fatter and fatter (all our cows run together, so management of her nutrition was the same as for the in calf cows)- Finally we gave her one last chance to get pregnant this summer- and she did it! She is due this Easter. I definitely believe in giving cows a second or third chance! Surely keeping cattle is more than just about the profit.

Also to Martin - I think there are people out there that would be prepared to purchase your troublesome cow at a fair price.

Farrant · Post by **Farrant** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:15 pm

As for Sod's Law.... we are desperately trying to increase our breeding stock, but of 8 calves so far, only one has been female! Good for the freezer but so incredibly frustrating when all we really want is heifers!

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:54 pm

At least you have the freezer option. When 16 male alpaca babes turn up and only 3 females, it really makes things really difficult.

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:37 am

We had a cow who didn't get pregnant until she was in her fourth year. I'm hoping that this year we can put her to the bull of OUR choice and get a pedigree heifer calf from her. Still, the Hereford cross heifer should sell easily. :;):

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:05 am

What are you people doing to me! OK I will keep her until the end of next summer, if she isn't in calf then, she will have to go. She is at present housed with the bull and I will ensure he is her constant companion, with as many chances as possible (I must be getting soft in my old age). I hope I am rewarded with a another calf of equally good merit from her.
One thing you should all remember though is that ease of getting in calf is also something that we should be selecting for, therefor none of her calves will be kept for breeding, but as Duncan has pointed out the best Dexter beef he has tasted was from a heifer!
Martin.